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Free Speech

(57 posts) (12 voices)

Started 17 years ago by triphammer
Latest reply from lwbjag

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BuBBy
Teh adnim

As I said at the start of my post - I was the person who reopened this thread.

I did this because I felt I should offer an explanation as to how statements had been misunderstood and this reaction only escalated the apparent level of annoyance.

I see nothing wrong with discussion. Even disagreement can be constructive when voiced in an objective rather than subjective manner.

I would propose that the moderators should not edit or change the words in other users posts. The correct (and easiest option) is the total removal of the post.

If there is any objection - the user may contact the moderator or admin via PM for an explanation - along with a justification for their post. This dialog may continue privately and outside of the forums. The moderators will do what is possible to be reasonable and fair - but the final decision will be the moderators.

The remedy is the restoration of the original post with possibly edits agreed between the moderator and user.

Criticising moderators in the forums is not on - if you have a problem - or disagree take it up privately. We spend our time trying to help as best we can - please don't try to destroy any credibility by throwing mud in the forums as a result of some private disagreement.

If you have an idea on how something can be done better - It's probably better to make a suggestion privately. Then there should be no chance someone will take it as criticism.

I'm waiting for your call. Call me now. :)

Posted 17 years ago #
Michelle
Member

One question:

Can't we all get along?

Really why don't you all let the past be the past. I was not all that hurt by Trip's comments and maybe he/she was just having a bad day. I think we should just forget about Trip's comments and move on.

I like the moderators so I'm not going to talk bad about them for them doing their job. If they see a post they don't like that I typed they can delete it. I'm not going to have a fit about it. I've had many posts deleted on other forums, it's really no big deal.

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

Onya Michelle,

Of course we can all get along. (Naturally I can only speak for myself).

There really isn't anything rewarding in winning an argument over the internet anyway. When people are arguing - the lurkers and onlookers just roll their eyes and think, "this is stupid", and move on. At the very least - the participants should be able to do the same.

Posted 17 years ago #
Wolven
Member

One lurker's opinion of this ridiculous, whiney thread....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STAR DATE: April 3, 3007.

CAPTAIN'S LOG: 20:05.

Debate has raged through the millennium. EGOBLOATERS have stormed planet GOTD and entered the peaceful city of FREESPEECH, attacking MODERATOR LEE and all inhabitants who find EGOBLOATERS to be over-sensitive, over-critical, lacking in humor, and devoid of the ability to forgive and forget. This attack by EGOBLOATERS has thrown the once idyllic realm of FREESPEECH into disharmony, and now threatens life-as-we-know-it, for all on GOTD.

Sent from planet HYPOCRITICA, the task for EGOBLOATERS is to profess 'freedom of speech for all', whilst censoring by stealth, the freedom of those they perceive as non-conformist to EGOBLOATER standards.

The mission for STARSHIP SANITISE:

1. Place a team of two, comprised of myself (CAPTAIN JAMES QUIRK) and MR.SPEAK,
South x South-East of the FREESPEECH perimeter, where it is intended we monitor the
elongated diatribe of EGOBLOATER STORMTROOPERS, and perhaps from time-to-time offer up a few words of wisdom, such as, "Get a life you sad, moronic [snipped]", or
"Waste your time and effort here, where people just like yourselves will appreciate
you more than we do... http://moaners.forum5.com/ "

SANITISE now approaches the third quadrant, 1.5 light-years from GOTD.

Quirk out.

CAPTAIN'S LOG: 20:08.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, thanks Michelle!
...Finally a sensible post worth reading, in this thread.

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

LOL - Set Phasers to Pun.

Hey - there actually is a http://moaners.forum5.com/ how about that?

Except I don't like purple - and purple on black is really hard on my eyes - especially when I'm sitting in a dark room - but then the moths and mozzies are attracted to my screen... and I can't brush them away - because they get squashed on the screen and....

oops. wrong forum. sorry guys. :(

Posted 17 years ago #
Wolven
Member

!!LOL >> "[snipped]" << LOL!!

I wish English were my first language. I actually meant to write [snipped].

Btw, I wondered who would get to it first,..Lee or yourself. The question now is, I wonder which one of you SAW it first?.. LOL x2

Posted 17 years ago #
Anonymous
Unregistered

If you wish to use profanity then browse to a site that goes in for that type of thing.

No swearing here.

Posted 17 years ago #
ibbit07
Member

You know posts, etc with the topic "Free Speech" and complaints like this on the internet always make me chuckle. Some people seem to assume that our right to free speech, gives us the right to say whatever we want wherever we are, but that isn't the truth. In fact, if this forum wanted to tell us we couldn't say the word "apple" here we'd have to follow that rule or else have our posts, words, membership deleted.

Posted 17 years ago #
Michelle
Member

That's true on some forums you can get banned for anything and they would get away with it because it's their forum.

Posted 17 years ago #
Anonymous
Unregistered

I just don't like seeing swear words in posts, even ones written to bypass swear filters.

Most swear words are acronyms or slang, using slang for masturbating (the 'W' word) is not polite.

Now children do come into these forums I expect, I have children myself, 13 & 11, I will find it offensive for them to see it written by adults and others that should know better.

I was hoping that this site would fit it's purpose, which is software, problems with software, tips n tricks with software, free software (not warez, pirated or cracks etc)
and experiences with other software, what one has to pay for.

Yes there is an off topic, however, swearing and being abusive should not be part of this forum.

What happens is, it will attract the gutter of the net, those that find it great to come here and blow their foul mouths off at people.

Before we know it this site gets lawsuits and it closes.

Posted 17 years ago #
Michelle
Member

I don't think that is going to happen Lee. Who was swearing?

Posted 17 years ago #
Anonymous
Unregistered

Hello again Michelle, well scroll up and see [snipped] X2 will give you a clue.

Posted 17 years ago #
Michelle
Member

Oh thanks, I see now. I think that is a good rule. Anyway I don't think this question has been asked before but is there any age limitations on the GOTD downloads? Do you have to be a certain age to install a program? I'm 26, but I was just wondering if there was an age limit on the downloads here. If you have to be a certain age to install a program from http://www.giveawayoftheday.com . Thank you.

Posted 17 years ago #
Anonymous
Unregistered

I think ages are 0 to infinity.

I understand where you're coming from, most tech sites require you to be over 13, some sites my daughter visits or has done in the past to become a member they send the parent an email to verify when they're under 13.

I would expect so far that children have become members and some people have mentioned that they're children recommended this site to them, with that in mind it fits ages of all ranges.

Posted 17 years ago #
Michelle
Member

I just didn't know if there was an age limit when installing the programs from here if you had to be a certain age. So what you're saying is there isn't? When I see my nieces and nephews again I'll tell them or maybe I'll just tell my brother and he'll tell them and he might even like some of the stuff on here.

Posted 17 years ago #
Anonymous
Unregistered

Anyone can of anyage can install the software I have yet to come across a e.u.l.a. here that is contrary to that.

Posted 17 years ago #
Wolven
Member

Well, it is easy to see that my feeble attempt to break up this 'going nowhere' thread with a little light-heartedness, has fallen upon deaf ears.

I will admit to a first indiscretion, however I will not, and should not be accused of a second. [quote Lee] "[snipped] X2" [/quote].

No! [snipped x1] to be precise. The second word I used was 'winker'.

WINKER [see also BLINKER]
1. A person who winks.
2. Blind consisting of a leather eyepatch sewn to the side of
the halter that prevents a horse from seeing something on either side.

Lee, if your desire is to be seen as a politically correct pedant, you are going about it in the correct manner in this forum, and falling right into the hands of those waiting to criticize you - I am not being critical of you as a moderator, here,..I am just making an observation.

Even so, my word 'winker' was erased, yet what do we have here....

[Quote Lee]
"She is hot so I asked her:
'take your kit off' without quotes
she produced a crash helmet and a roll of condoms.
ha ha ha ha
Type in 'gangster' without quotes also."
[/Quote]

Quote above, from the linked thread below.
http://www.giveawayoftheday.com/forums/topic/710?replies=6

[Quote Lee from 4 posts above]
"Now children do come into these forums I expect, I have children myself, 13 & 11, I will find it offensive for them to see it written by adults and others that should know better."
[Quote]

So there is now one rule for yourself, and yet another rule for the rest of us?
I can see where some would be greatly offended by your 'Quote', particularly
as it came from one who is an adult, a moderator, and therefore, another who should also know better.

Anyhow, my summation does not differ from my initial comment...
'Close the thread.' It serves no purpose other than to cater for a group of righteous, indignant, left-wing, egotistical bigots,..allowing them to huff and puff their self-serving beliefs upon others.

Even more reason to support the need for a 'password only' member's forum.

Hmmm,..perhaps I am being a little critical of you after all. LOL!!

Posted 17 years ago #
Michelle
Member

Wolven it is not unusual. I have been to forums that have banned curse words for whatever reason, it's really no big deal. I don't think anyone here likes to curse, I haven't seen really anyone curse here and really I don't like to read curse words myself.

You must follow the Rules & Guidelines to remain a member. That's what they tell you everywhere & since this is giveawayoftheday.com (a family site) where you can download programs for free. I don't think you should be allowed to curse either. If you had kids you understand or nieces and nephews.

I have no kids, but I do have nieces and nephews and I would not like them reading curse words either so I can understand where Lee and others are coming from.

Posted 17 years ago #
Anonymous
Unregistered

That does not have anything to do with writing in this forum words beginning with 'w'.

You can twist it all you wish, so your rude comments were snipped.

So did it contain any profanity wolven?

What I worte that is, as you're digging your hole deeper and deeper.

You did not write firstly the word winker you wrote it with the letter 'i' replaced with an 'a',
to which you the made out you wrote winker.

I have screenshots if you want me to prove you wrong.

As I have said you wish to write swear words then visit a yahoo chat room.

Posted 17 years ago #
Wolven
Member

Lee,

*** I stated fact. I twisted nothing. You are the Chubby Checker of this forum, continually misunderstanding people and misrepresenting what they say.

[Quote Lee]"So did it contain any profanity wolven?"[/quote]

Your comments? Profanity no. Sexual connotation, yes (which along with my 'w' word, have no place being posted in front of under-age members or people of various religious beliefs..

..And for the record: For my 'w' word I do offer a sincere apology to anyone who may have seen it and been offended.

It is a word used without too much attention given to it in Australia. It was my mistake to think you would have a laugh, then quickly remove it,..even though it was quickly removed.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*** [Quote Lee]You did not write firstly the word winker you wrote it with the letter 'i' replaced with an 'a',[/quote]
[Quote Wolven]I will admit to a first indiscretion, however I will not, and should not be accused of a second.[/quote]

There it is again for your perusal...Learn to see what you read Lee, before you make comment.

[Quote Lee]I have screenshots if you want me to prove you wrong.[/quote]

Lee, if you do not understand what I wrote in explanation, have your 11 year old explain it to you. And don't bother offering an apology to me, for your error. Considering your remarks to others on this forum, I would pay little credence to your sincerity.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Quote Lee]"What I worte that is, as you're digging your hole deeper and deeper."[/quote]

Not true Lee. You in fact are the one digging my hole deeper and deeper. Be careful you don't slip and tumble into it yourself. You are not the only one here with 'screen-shots'.

[Quote Lee]"As I have said you wish to write swear words then visit a yahoo chat room."[/quote]

Well, you seem to know more about Yahoo chat rooms than I do - You are making a habit of referring anyone who disagrees with you lately, to that room. Like others have said before me, "No thanks"... In fact, if you have such an inane interest in them, go visit by yourself.

Lee, you continually refer to my usage of one unacceptable word, used once, as in the plural. Please get your facts straight again. This is one more reason why people continually criticize you and your methods of moderation.

Also, if this site had a half decent filter, we would not be having this conversation.
So I am not the only one at fault here.
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks Michelle,..I am aware of all that.

I am just now looking at the picture in its entirety. There is another agenda going on here, as others have stated. Across the forum, Lee has been either rude or sarcastic to just about all participating in this thread, apart from yourself.
Having misrepresented my words, I am now beginning to question his ability to moderate fairly, objectively, and without bias or prejudice. The more I see of Lee's particular remarks to people, and deletion of posts, the more I am forced to question. But hey,...who gives a hoot - He has to live with himself,...we don't.

--------------------------------------------------
For goodness sake people:
Read the thread in its entirety. It is a wonderful example of adults entering second childhood. Like I stated - "This thread is going nowhere". My best advice would be to shut it down and forget it.

....Now I lay me down to sleep,....
....zzzzz....zzzzz....zzzz....zzzzz

Posted 17 years ago #
LadyGodiva
Member

Michelle it's ok, we all are getting along. There was arguing with name calling and disrespectful personal insults but that was all previously. When the thread reopened it turned into a discussion, maybe something of an autopsy of earlier parts of the thread. Sometimes that can actually help a forum move on to better things, rather than just leaving the bad to fester until it explodes again.

Everybody doesn't have to agree with each other on every single point, how boring would that be? It's just that demeaning people and name calling while disagreeing is wrong, regardless of who it comes from. Even criticizing a particular behavior is not the same as demeaning someone or criticizing them as a person.

Agree with you and others that no cursing is a good idea too, even if casual or meant as a "joke". There are kids here.

Like you I also have nieces and nephews but no children of my own, plenty of time for that so perhaps someday. But in the meanwhile I do have a stepson whom I adore as if he were my own and we get along wonderfully. (His "real" mother chooses not to have much involvement in his life. Her loss, he's a great kid.) But whether your own or not, caring about a child deeply changes your perspective on everything.

When I saw name calling and demeaning of people here, the automatic thought was "How would I feel if someone spoke to my stepson that way?" The answer was the same as it has always been these past few years, like a roaring stepmamma cougar. Grraaaarrrr! :)

Posted 17 years ago #
Michelle
Member

"Not true Lee. You in fact are the one digging my hole deeper and deeper. Be careful you don't slip and tumble into it yourself. You are not the only one here with 'screen-shots'."

What's that supposed to mean? About Lee not being the only one with screen shots.

Posted 17 years ago #
triphammer
Member

I was upset initially because my posts were deleted. I've calmed down now (a few pleasant drinks later) and have had a chance to go through all the posts here.

First off. My appologies to the forum members here. Especially Michelle who I singled out unfairly. My intention was only to make a comment referencing to calm down. Kinda like saying "take a pill". Here in the US, it's common expression... for me anyway. So if you were insulted at all. I'm sry.

For the rest of the posters here, I believe most had VERY good points. I'm not going to go quoting everyone... but very good points peeps. This discussion accomplished what I'd like to see here in the forum anyway...

Seeing the word snipped is SO much better than gone. :)

Posted 17 years ago #
Michelle
Member

Apology accepted and I am sorry too Trip for calling you a troll.

Posted 17 years ago #
whitmar57
Member

Well geez everyone... it looks like after the smoke has cleared we've actually made some progress here! Good to see all the ickiness wasn't in vain.

I agree with LadyGodiva once again, "...name calling and demeaning of people..." is unnecessary (and I hope that if I am guilty of either that someone will bring it to my attention so that I can make amends).

Bubby... you are certainly a level-headed member and fair moderator and I do agree with what you said. Mud slinging is not the right way to go about resolving conflict.

In your comment... "Criticising moderators in the forums is not on - if you have a problem - or disagree take it up privately."

I agree with you here as well. It makes more sense to handle problems privately, then to put them on display for all to gawk at. It would be reasonable of course, to expect the moderators to also adhere to that same rule. PM the member in question to discuss the wrongdoing as opposed to "pointing out" member mistakes and/or indiscretions openly for all to see in the forum area sounds much more dignified.

I have a question about the "added commentary" after a portion of a post has been "snipped"... because I just don't get it. What purpose does it serve to leave a little "dig" or "description" of what has been removed? That seems to serve only as a way to embarrass and humiliate the member who wrote the post, rather than to offer anything constructive. It just seems unnecessary and a bit spiteful.

Credibility? Well I sorta agree a bit but not really, kinda...

My experience has shown that when a person's credibility suffers damage it is usually of their own doing. It's their inappropriate behavior that causes the tarnishing, not the person who points it out.

However I will say that it is not necessary to "always bring that bad behavior to everyone's attention". And I am going to keep that in mind (yes, myself as well) in the future.

Lee you are absolutely correct (don't know that you want my vote, but you get it here anyway ;-0 ) there is no need for swearing here. It doesn't "add" to a story really. (It can still be done freely at home tho right??) LOL

Oh Good Gravy...We can do this people! C'mon Now... RAH! RAH!
[pom-poms raised - (the cheerleader kind not the puppy kind) :-O ]

We can successfully co-exist on this forum using some common sense, respect for one another, and by accepting responsibility for mistakes made and making amends for them too. (saying sorry - only hurts for the first second or two - honest - I know, I've had a lot of practice in my life!)

We could revolutionize the forum world!!!

(Ok so maybe the progress is not "that" earth shattering, but don't forget I've been sniffing drywall dust and inhaling insulation particles for 10 days now.... at this point the oddest things impress me... and I see pretty pretty spots when I blink !OY!)

Now I am off to install my new toilet - and yes a nice cold vodka & diet coke is on it's way too! :-o (hic hic)

Posted 17 years ago #
Wolven
Member

@ Michelle, "What's that supposed to mean? About Lee not being the only one with screen shots."

There is no hidden meaning, Michelle. You are an articulate lady,..read it 'as written'.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, it would seem the sensibility train has pulled into the station overnight (Aus. night) I will agree to climb aboard, if Lee agrees not to overcharge for the ride

Michelle lol! What I am saying here with, "I will agree to climb aboard, if Lee agrees not to overcharge for the ride" is that Lee, at times, needs to act a little less like a mimi-dictator and spend more time actually listening to what people have to say, and taking their P'sOV into account before he acts.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lee,
The game is over. If you agree to show a little more courtesy toward members, and more tolerance when dealing with their requests/complaints/posts, I am sure your work here will be far more appreciated, and less likely to cause dispute.

Does that seem a fair statement/request?

Well, I have work to do. If I don't catch up with y'all prior, for those who celebrate Easter for what it truly represents, enjoy and remember. For those who don't,..enjoy the chocolate.

Posted 17 years ago #
lwbjag
Member

It is with some timidty I offer observiations to the present dialogue.
I once accepted the label "politically incorrect" with some degree of pride in my younger days. Today I often find myself as a "grumpy old-man".
I concour with the often stated remark that vulgarity is the mark of a limited vocabulary and/or education. (Even though the "F-bomb" feels soo good rolling off the tongue ! LOL 8-) )
As a card carring "adult" and member of "AARP" I now know "children" cannot be sheltered from "foul language" in our society today. Indeed, they are more aware than "we" give them credit unfourtnately.
Excuse me. I degress. "Children" aren't THE topic at hand. Are they ? (IMHO )
This topic appears to be titled "Free speech".... This forum is based within GOTD.
Personal conflicts aside ...
Can we agree, we're united in our interest of computer software ?
I am increasingly irritated by postings within the comments sections of each day's giveaway. I feel everyone would benefit if moderators would show more concern for the insults thrown around there. Most every time a screensaver is offered, everyone must tolerate the repeated complaints serving no constructive purpose. Each day there are "rants" such as #11 within today's (Apr. 03) sofware offering. EVERY day, everyone must wade through repeated "bloat" not much different one from another. Is there a "Red badge of courage" for the greatest number of "comments" ? Why, oh why must everyone suffer?
Permiting daily ego-feeding rants only encourages more of the same. What a waste !
I humbly offer a constructive suggestion. The free exchange of ideas within "free speech" can benifit everyone. Complaints, insults, condemnations Etc. responded directly by moderators would positively impress those with such general blasts. (Including, "Yipee ! I'm #1 to post" - which appears to be somekind of competion among a few.) As GOTD becomes more widely known, there will be more & more new people unable to activate or read directions. Help these people reaching out for assistance. The GOTD Team need not respond to an indivual in the "comments". The "personal" contact directed from the team will be appreciated and positively impress another newcomer. (Dale Carniage works ... 8-) )
Each time I post to the "comments", I get the recognition that it is awaiting moderator approval. Moderators could screen & respond accordingly.
Complaints directed to the software would still benifit from the free exchange of ideas and would be constructive to all. These often aid in determining the usefulness of a particular download. (A personal caution following links. One I followed tried to commandeer my browser.)
Michelle, Lee, Wolven and everyone. I respect & rely on all your input. I firmly believe there is a positive core "spirit" within the evolving GOTD "community" (if I can call it that) that we happily share. Disregarding the author... The "Star Trek" takeoff that Wolven wrote ... "ROTFLMAO" !!! Best laugh I've had in some time I must admit. -- And so on the mark ! 8-)
Each of us brings our own background, experience & coulture to this wonderful group. I try to keep in mind we are communicating with people "Worldwide". Humor is sometimes lost in translation and not intended to offend.
I thank all the moderators, for I'm sure alot of their efforts go unnoticed and not really appreciated. It must be a difficult task determine what to "edit" without judgeing unfairly, allowing healthy "free speech".
There is a large growing knowledge base here we all can benefit from. I hope we build on our strengths, while not getting into petty competition.
Thanks for letting me share. I sincerly hope I didn't offend anyone.
"Peace" 8-)

Posted 17 years ago #

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