Hello
First of all I apologize if my english isn't so good but I'm Italian and English is not my first language...
I wanted to ask GOTD staff if there's a moderator for italian GOTD comments and, if there's not, if you can provide one...
I really don't like reading volgar and unconstructive comments of people offending each other while I just wanna read about the features of the SW and similar...
In particular I'm really irritate about what the user called "giovi 69" tells about my country,language and culture,resulting really offensive:
-"l’ITALIANO (lingua inutile e sconosciuta oltre CHIASSO)" Italian: [a language that is useless and unknown beyond Chiasso(TN:a Swiss city situated near the Italian frontier)]
-"siamo un paese arretrato rispetto agli altri." We're a country which is backward compared with others [TN:talking about Italy]
Moreover, after our compliants, he/she label us as "imbecilli"[retarded],"dementi"[demented],"malati"[mentally sick] and telling us to go to the psychiatrist...
Personally I call people like these [who post offensive and off-topic messages in an online community with the intention of provoking other users and offende them]"Troll" and I pray you to do something...
Thank you
Silvia, Rome
Moderator for Italian GOTD comments!
(35 posts) (12 voices)-
Posted 16 years ago #
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aRenegade
MemberI find it very sad reading about incidents like the one you described. The person who made that comment “giovi 69” can be nothing more than someone deeply troubled. What is even sadder, this is not an isolated incident. In the past, I am sorry to say, I have been witness to ethnic slurs made against developers of Chinese and Eastern European nationalities in the GAOTD comments no less! I wholeheartedly agree with you that better safeguards be in place so these sorts of things will not be repeated.
I was born and raised in the U.S.A. but my parents immigrated to this country from the Ukraine. The reason I just shared that is to send a message to this "giovi 69" and others like him or her. In this country everyone except Native Americans, has a genealogy that goes back to the other side of the Atlantic or Pacific Ocean. The ethnic slurs they make may actually be against themselves. Some food for thought. Take Care
Posted 16 years ago # -
I know giovanni; most of us in the English section do. He frequently comments (really long ones too); he also posts them at my website.
While I have noticed that he dislikes Italy (he is Italian as far as I know), I never took him one to make racial slurs/insults. Then again, I guess being Italian himself he may not see that as wrong. He always came/comes across as a nice (and very helpful) guy.
I believe these allegations really need more investigation before we can slander someone.
Ashraf
Posted 16 years ago # -
watcher13
MemberI, too, find Giovanni pleasant and helpful, but it'd quite possible he lets personal frustrations get the better of him. From his posts, he does seem like he can get carried away in a good way, sometimes, though I'm sure I'm guilty of that myself. Perhaps, he's letting himself get carried away in a bad way, too, but I hope this can be worked out. He doesn't strike me as anywhere near being a troll.
Posted 16 years ago # -
aRenegade
MemberAshraf's comment about allegations is surprising. What allegation are you talking about? Allegations are unsubstantiated facts. This person WROTE insulting remarks! "l’ITALIANO (lingua inutile e sconosciuta oltre CHIASSO)", "imbecilli"[retarded],"dementi" Those are not alleged remarks, that person wrote them, and here they are for all to read. I will make an allegation, “Giovanni is not from Italy and that person is not Italian.” Understand the difference?
I don't find Giovanni pleasant, I find his or her comments mocking and the writing style that of a giddy and childish high school sophomore. I'm sure all of us would like to hear from him or her for an explanation. Especially Apetta88 since this is the person who was offended and from what I’ve read I agree with Apetta88 that was an ethnic slur, and I’ll even stand by the guy! Innocent or otherwise you just do not write things like that, it was inappropriate for this forum. Next time you’re out and about walk up to an African American and call them over by saying the ‘N’ word. Then tell them it was all in fun, see how far you get. Apetta88 is due an explanation and an apology by Giovanni. Whether Apetta88 accepts is up to him to decide, but it is the right thing to do, and the fair thing to do.
@Watcher13 wrote "He doesn't strike me as anywhere near being a troll." I don't know what you have been watching but I get a feeling it hasn't been the news. lol
Endnote: Allegation - an assertion, especially relating to wrongdoing or misconduct on somebody's part, that has yet to be proved or supported by evidence.
Example of an Allegation; I say - “Ashraf, Fubar, Watcher13, and Giovanni are the same person.”
Posted 16 years ago # -
watcher13
MemberRenegade, I'm mainly referring to what he wrote in English. The only problem that I have with his English postings is a philosophical disagreement on what the comment section is for. With him, it tends to be open season on whatever software is offered that day. I don't mean that he tends to be insulting so much as dismissing any software that he can find a freeware alternative for, without really giving it a serious look. Which doesn't do the developer much good. Although, in English anyway, he's practically a prude compared to the nasty comments I see from so many.
I'm inclined to believe what appetta says, but, not having translated for myself, can only take apetta's word for it. I very much respect you renegade, so I don't want to insult you, but you might want to review the definition of allegation you sited. Unless you've actually translated the pages (to make sure they weren't taken out of context) and seen the insults yourself, something I can't tell from your posts, then you only have apetta's word for it, i.e..., his allegation. I don't believe it's just a disagreement between the two of them, but I do hope Giovanni can be convinced to let his better nature prevail. If not, I'd censor him too.
As Ashraf says, if Giovanni's Italian, it could be interpreted that he does have some right to criticize his own people. If, however, he said those things, I feel he's definetely letting his frustrations get the better of him. I mean, what would all these indictments of the Italian people be doing in a software forum, anyway? That's part of what's so surprising about it. In fact, I'm usually surprised at how many negative comments the moderators let through. They obviously believe in the free expression of opinion as much as possible. But comments such as imbecilli, dementi, and malati are way over the top and serve no useful purpose. That's not just a philosophical statement from me against slurring any culture. Having been stationed there in the service, I also retain a particular affection for the Italian people.
By the way, how did Fubar get into this? I assume you were just stuck for a random name.
Posted 16 years ago # -
watcher13
MemberLooked it up and translated about a weeks worth myself. Seems more like a family squabble than anything else. Certainly Giovanni has ruffled more than a few feathers, but he has supporters, too. The main problem is he's somtimes lacking in tact, and sometimes his joking brags are taken seriously. Unfortunately, he has a common continental European prejudice that sees those who don't speak a 2nd language as undereducated and provincial. That prejudice isn't even confined to continental Europe. It's probably even more common in Japan. When some Italian users complained about a particular software not being in Italian, he'd dog them about not speaking English, which is, after all the most common software language by far. Despite appetta's revulsion at the thought, Italian isn't a primary language outside Italy, a couple of African countries, and parts of Switzerland. Giovanni would also irritate many by using English in his Italian posts and made a point to mention his frequent posting in the English comments section.
It came to a head when some complained that the Italian voices available for TextAloud spoke with a foreign accent. However, some posters gave links to better voices that could be downloaded. But Giovanni thought it was good software and went a little overboard passionately defending it. For one thing, he thought it could be useful for learning English pronunciation. It was in that post where he made the criticisms about Italian's limited geographic scope and about a lot of Italian's being provincial. That, not the later insults, started the call for him to be banned. It looks like he received his share of insults, too, though some of them seemed to have also been removed. It appears to me that his main crime was pricking their national pride.
Anyway, it's probably good to have an Italian moderator. It looks like they might have had one once, but that person dropped out. Giovanni might have been banned. In any case, I saw a personal attack unrelated to Giovanni in the comments on CloneTerminator, so cooler heads may have not yet prevailed.
Probably just a tempest in a teapot.
Posted 16 years ago # -
Wot@n
Italian ModThe situation about Giovi 69 or Giovanni is exactly as apetta88 saids.
Oh, yes I was the the first mod, and, (like The Ghostbusters), I'm back again!
So we'll try in any way to block this guy, but we need your help, and me too, ask you, as her, to help us.
In any case just for identify this guy he's only a lamer that believe to be the mighty one (and sometimes signs in this way or like this).
No, isn't a tempest in teapot, but a great shame!@ Ashraf (the man that Giovi69 saids to be his great geek friend) it's a pity that you don't read the italian and that don't understand really that nobody slander him.
Ask for this to the italian room mod and ask him why and how much posts full of insults were delete.
Sorry for my english (it's rusty) but I can't leave alone apetta88 in this crusade against many sceptics.Posted 16 years ago # -
watcher13
MemberWot@n. It may be better if Giovanni just sticks to English posting. He hasn't really abused our comments section. I was hoping that he could behave himself, but maybe his negative views of some Italians are just too strong for him to be courteous. It's a shame, but there isn't really any reason for him to be banned from the English forum. After all, he likes us English speakers! I never doubted appetta. Silvia's intentions seemed to be honourable from the start. Since Giovanni has been respectful on the English forum, we were all just surprised. But I did translate some of the Italian pages and saw a few others behaving badly, too. I was just hoping everbody could calm down and be respectful and nobody would be banned, but Giovanni was perhaps a little foolish and I understand why many are upset with him.
Your English is just fine, much better than my Italian. Parle come un bambino.
Posted 16 years ago # -
aRenegade,
Lets not be childish about this.
>>>Allegation - an assertion, especially relating to wrongdoing or misconduct on somebody's part, that has yet to be proved or supported by evidence.
If I recall, I said lets investigate the allegations. So far, the only 'proof' provided is some quotes by the OP. Investigating would involve a mod, or other responsible party, actually translating the words and seeing for themselves what he says.
Not to mention it has to be proven that it is Giovanni who says those things and not someone else posing as him (not saying someone else is posing at him, but it is very possible - someone tried to pose as me on my own blog...)
Until the above two things occur, it is still just an allegation.
Lastly, I was not defending Giovanni or anything that he is being accused of doing.
Posted 16 years ago # -
watcher13
MemberAshraf, I can tell you this much. From what I saw, he did make the comments about Italians being undereducated and provincial and Italian being limited in geographic importance (which is, unfortunately, true), and he likely made the other comments, too. The problem is, it's pretty clear that some of the stuff's already been removed. There's references too it, and it also seems clear that there were some nasty responses to him, probably before he said his worse stuff that day. I say that because some of the posts defending him and saying that the attacks against him were going to far into the gutter are still there. On the other hand, it seemed like he had been getting under some people's skins for awhile and it finally came to a head. I think you and renegade are both on the side of good intentions. I think appetta is, too, but it appears to be an exaggeration to say Giovanni was a pure devil and everyone else in the Italian comments were pure angels. Although, overall, they seemed more courteous than we often are in the English comments.
Because of the language used and the writing style, I think it was Giovanni.
Someone tried to pose as you? That would have had to be a pretty pale imitation. :)
Posted 16 years ago # -
Wot@n
Italian Mod@ Watcher13
Always we demand to Giovi to post only in English forum, but his great amusement it's only to offend all the Italians and nothing else.
So if there is a chance to banned him, it's should be only in Italian forum. We will be very happy to give him to you ( and good luck :)).
If, for some great miracle, he should change behaviour, I have no problem to accept him and his suggestions.
Thank you for your kind comment about my english.
Have a good day (or night) wherever you arePosted 16 years ago # -
giovi
MemberHi guys!!
It's GIOVANNI (giovi 69 - 100% ITALIAN) here.
Thank you for your ATTENTION towards my comments: you make me feel like a STAR now, LOL!!
Honestly don't want to spend too much time with STUPID and ENVIOUS PEOPLE like ASPETTA 88 and other silly and childish GAOTD Italian bloggers like her/him who are committed to INSULT ME in the ITALIAN GAOTD FORUM almost every day rather than talking about the SW given away by this website on a daily basis.
To just give you an example of it please visit:
http://it.giveawayoftheday.com/history-explorer/#comments
As you can see (please use GOOGLE TRANSLATE if you don't understand the Italian language) there are 31 comments there but none of them talks about the GAOTD (HISTORY EXPLORER) apart from mine (n.16), because the main worry of this anonymous characters is to insult me, threaten me or even worse to denigrate me calling me "IDIOT", "MORON", "FOOL", "NANCY-BOY" or "FAG" (or "FAIRY" in English American language, if I'm not mistaken)" etc...
So who is a "racist" and/or a "troubled" person?
Please note that this occurs in the ITALIAN FORUM almost daily, even when I don't send any comment there signing myself as "GIOVI69", although the GAOTD forum, according to its rules, should be used just to comment the software (but the Italian GAOTD MODERATORS seem to ignore that).
To make things worse, some of these LOUTS often use my nick to send ludicrous or even slanderous messages in both forums in the desperate attempt to tarnish my reputation.
For this reason I found amazing that so many people here (even the GAOTD ADMINISTRATOR) have spent so much time to reply to this anonymous (and probably frustrated) ITALIAN BLOGGER who has decided to open this thread to deliberately DENIGRATE me once again, maybe because he/she understood that the Italian forum is unfit to achieve this goal(just a few people there attend the forum).
Maybe you are asking yourself why so many (Italian) people in the GAOTD FORUM get so furious and nasty whenever I post a comment there, right??
This occurs because, to make a fool of them, I've repeatedly told them in the ITALIAN FORUM that, unlike them, many AMERICAN GEEKS like my friend ASHRAF found my daily comments pretty interesting and useful often giving them lots of positive feedback and this made them literally FURIOUS because most of them don't know the ENGLISH LANGUAGE at all (and don't install the GAOTD if it's not in ITALIAN LANGUAGE) and they die with ENVY at the mere though that, unlike them, I can handle a debate in plain English in the GAOTD American forum talking about the GAOTD software and other issues related to it...LOL!
They also don't accept the idea that the ITALIAN LANGUAGE is pretty UNKNOWN abroad (thus USELESS) as well as the fact that if you don't know the ENGLISH language you are nowadays screwed especially in the IT environment where 90% of software are written just in ENGLISH or in other languages except the Italian one...LOL!
They also reject the fact that the American people like ASHRAF are much cleverer and sharper than the Italian ones when HI-TECH and IT matters come into play (just 30% of Italian population use the WEB every day: so what has this fact to do with RACISM?????) and the idea that I can handle the debate here in plain English with American Geeks like ASHRAF literally make them crazy and furious, especially after reading this nice past messages, written by some American Geeks, with reference to my comments previously posted in the American forum:
Full marks to Giovanni,(comments Nos.48 & 52) who took the time and trouble to pass on some very concise information regarding freeware photo editors. Helpful information of this kind should be encouraged on this site instead of the useless, critical, and sometimes downright petty comments which appear on this page on a regular basis. I found giovanni’s input very helpful and I feel sure others would have also benefited. Thank you Giovanni. Hope to read more from you in the future. I know it’s late in the day but I felt compelled to issue you a vote of thanks, so I hope you read this.
Comment by John — November 28th, 2008 at 1:41 am
I am commercially running (one person business) a Windows XP system with VMware. The virtual server is running Unix with Apache as a Webserver. XP and Unix run at the same time.The webserver is in a ’set and forget’ mode and connected to the internet. Clients can make their orders and data is accumulating in the Unix environment.
[..........]
I’m looking forward to the comment of our Italian friend Giovanni, always good to read (I am a fan; he is no.1 for me).Comment by Oscar H. — December 23rd, 2008 at 10:51 am
Well, believe it or not, but since then, as chance would have it, my comments posted in the American Forum started to get a very low rating user evaluation, probably because some of these childish and envious (and probably SICK) Italian bloggers mentioned above went to the AMERICAN FORUM to click on "NO" at the question "did you find this comment useful?" so as to make my comments ridiculous and unnoticed, in the desperate attempt to prove that even in the American forum my messages were not appreciated and assessed as useful by most of the community.
Of course, I know that all of this is hard to believe it but I can ensure you that I'm telling you the PLAIN TRUTH and this thread confirms my suspicions about their childish behaviour...LOL!
Now, since I've had similar experiences in other more crowded Italian forums than this, I came to the conclusion that ITALIAN PEOPLE, especially the little percentage of them who attends online forums such as this one, are just little spoilt rascal children (no matter what age they are) with a little brain who use the web just to vent their own frustrations and insult people like me whose only fault is to be more educated, skilled and cleverer than them as for as the ENGLISH LANGUAGE KNOWLEDGE & IT MATTERS are concerned!!
So, considering what I said above, how can I be described as a "racist person" who hates Italian people if I am a 100% ITALIAN NATIVE SPEAKER born in ITALY and currently resident in ITALY? Big Mystery!!
As for as I know "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life. (WIKIPEDIA)
Have I made myself clear ASPETTA 88??
Please go back to school, starting from the PRIMARY ONE and cross yourself twice before accusing me of "RACISM" (???) and above all let's start learning ENGLISH rather than talking nonsense here: alright?
Alternatively, instead of cowardly hiding yourself behind a fake nick, if you are so keen on spreding slander about my person, describing myself as "RACIST" or "TROUBLED", at least do it using your REAL NAME and SURNAME so as to give me the chance to SUE you for SLANDER as I can ensure you that I neither a racist nor a troubled person!
Over and OUT!!
Cheers.
Giovanni
Posted 16 years ago # -
Wot@n
Italian ModFrom Giovi69 01/14/2009 Italian Room, software: TextAloud (post #14):
"Sempre con questa storia dell’ITALIANO…ma possibile che siate così provinciali e ignorantelli? A me piacerebbe sapere cosa fate nella vita e come avete trovato, anche se me lo posso immaginare essendo in ITALY…LOL!!"Who's the racist?
Giovi69,above:
"So, considering what I said above, how can I be described as a "racist person" who hates Italian people if I am a 100% ITALIAN NATIVE SPEAKER born in ITALY and currently resident in ITALY? Big Mystery!!"This is the answer for your "Big Mistery"
Posted 16 years ago # -
watcher13
MemberBasta! Per Favore! Enough! Please!
Giovanni, I did what you said and translated that day. I'm sorry, I can't agree with you. There were all kinds of posts that day. Some attacked you, some defended you, and many talked about the software. The truth is this should not have happened. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't really care who's at fault, or who insulted who first, or who's "jealous" of who, or who's a racist, or whatever. Over time, many of you forgot how to act like ladies and gentlemen. In the end, it's the moderator's responsibility. If the moderator will just remove the personal attacks and leave only the comments on the software, THERE WILL BE NO PROBLEM. If some people will not post without attacking others, then they will just be frustrated when they do not see those comments printed. Most, maybe all of them, will just give up.As for speaking Italian, both sides are being a little silly. GOTD is not going to stop giving away software just because it's not in Italian. That may not be fair, but it's true. Hasn't anyone thought that most of the developers don't read the Italian forum, either? Most don't ever know that people are complaining because the software is not in Italian. As we say in English, "your protests are falling on deaf ears". On the other hand, Giovanni, why waste so much energy on people who just don't know better. Why not just post comments on the software and realize that some people just won't understand?
You want to debate whether Italians are smart? What would the great Roman philosophers, some of the smartest people in history, think of all this pointless arguing? They would think that Italians are too smart to waste their time this way.
I say to all of you, as Fransesco said the day that you mentioned, Giovanni, "non ne faccio un drama", which I translate to mean "do not make a drama". If you three and others are going to continue and attack each other, I beg you not to bring it here to the English forums. Please, go back to the Italian forum and complain about each other as much as you like, though this makes me sad to think about.
Posted 16 years ago # -
@Giovi...
I've got nothing against you.
I only wanted point out the problem about comments on our forum...
I just took you as example because your comments were the ones that deeply offended me...
I don't want "the war" as you wrote on GOTD comments...
About what you wrote to me, I don't speak english so well [i wrote it in the first post,did you read?], so I'd be glad to clarify the situation but in ITALIAN [because we both know this wonderful language!] otherwise there can't be communication and we'll surely misunderstood each other...
ThanksPosted 16 years ago # -
My brother [who knows english] traslated the final part of your post:
Alternatively, instead of cowardly hiding yourself behind a fake nick, if you are so keen on spreding slander about my person, describing myself as "RACIST" or "TROUBLED", at least do it using your REAL NAME and SURNAME so as to give me the chance to SUE you for SLANDER as I can ensure you that I neither a racist nor a troubled person!
1)I never wrote you're racist [i said that WHAT you said has offended me...] or troubled [it was aRenegade]. So you're a liar or you didn't read this topic properly]!
2)My name is Silvia [ I don't like putting my name everywhere, ask it to the administrator if you think you're right], I'm from Rome and I'm studying medicine... and you?
3)Before sueing me, if i were you, I'll think twice because you have no legal pretext so you risk to be sued you yourself :D [my father and my boyfriend are lawyers so I'm not totally ignorant in law affairs...]
4)i'm not keen to slander [???] you, i'm keen of NOT being offensed by someone i don't know!
Posted 16 years ago # -
@ watcher
I think we got a little bit OT.I don't care about giovi at all [except when he offend my country!]. I just wanted to know if there was a moderator and, if so, telling him to do something about this situation...p.s. "non ne faccio un dramma" is traslated as "i don't make a drama about it"
Posted 16 years ago # -
@watcher
I agree with you that deleting offensive comments for me is enough [i told it in #4 ]
The problem is that he wrote those things on GOTD comments and, as i understood, there's no one that controls them [I think I can't do it because i'm only a FORUM moderator,in any case i don't know how...].
Anyway,everything is clear so please let's stop arguing... :DPosted 16 years ago # -
watcher13
MemberI'm sorry, Apetta. I misunderstood. I was thinking Lee gave you Administrator privileges like he has. I don't know about the Italian comments section, but the English has Administrators. All English comments must be approved by an Administrator. When we make a comment in the comment section it says "your comment is awaiting moderation" until it is approved. If yours doesn't say that, then you need an Administrator. If it does, then that person is letting all things through, even the insults. But, of course, if your comment section says that, then you already know about it. Lee may have misunderstood and thought you meant the Italian forum, not the Italian comments section. I hope someone at GOTD will see this, and help you out. That's what I meant. To have the Administrator's take out more of the insults. Still, if everybody could behave, that would not be a problem. But I'm not saying you were misbehaving. I understand that you're upset and just want all the insults to stop.
As you know, everything is automatically posted in the forums. If it's bad, the moderators take it out later. Unlike the comments, where it must be approved first. At least, I know it is that way in English.
Posted 16 years ago # -
NotaClue
MemberMy name says it all....but can't you install a patch from Microsoft to translate?
I can understand persons getting upset by "semi" personal and or comments putting down certain persons, but if there is an add on that will translate what is the problem? The world web is just that....No one should be excluded...I live in a very rural part of America where even dial up has trouble getting out....plus I'm old...This makes me neither stupid, uninformed, uncultured or any of the other things mentioned!! Be thankful for what you have and pray to whatever you feel holy that all others in the world can one day find the things you have.Posted 16 years ago #
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