I just couldnt say nothing about Alawar products.
Especialy when i have been collecting all the games that come out on this site.
In may opinion, Alawar has given us some of the best games
on this site.
Alawar, you have definitly given us excelent examples of
your products and i sure hope that your investment on this
site pays off because you deserve it.
Alawar
(41 posts) (15 voices)-
sergio
MemberPosted 17 years ago # -
Love Alawar. Big thumbs up. Hope they keep making wonderful games.
Posted 17 years ago # -
Hempman
MemberI find most of the Alawar games quite fun. However, there is an issue I have asked about numerous times, but never recieved an answer.
Why do such simple games want to use 100% CPU??
Now, don't go trying to tell me I am wrong, as I have proven it numerous times. I will even repost here how I have proven it.
Those with Win XP or Vista can go to http://www.systeminternals.com and download Process Explorer. Think Task Manager on Steroids.
To install it, open the zip and copy the files to a directory of your chosing. I simply copied the files to %root%\windows\system32. Make a shortcut to it, if you like.
Once you run it, you can actually replace Task Manager with it. To do so, run it, select Options > Replace Task Manager. Then it will come up when you hit Ctrl Alt Del.
Once installed, open it. From the menu, select View > System information. A graph will come up with three items; CPU, Commit and I/O Bytes. We are only concerned with CPU Usage History here. It might be a good idea to maximize the window to see the details better.
Let this run for a while and get used to looking at it. Again, try to concentrate on CPU usage. First, note the colors. Red is the amount of CPU kernal time taken. Green is the amount of user CPU time (the instructions from the program itself) and the peak is the copmposite of the program instructions (user) plus the kernal instructions being used by the program.
Also note that when one floats the mouse pointer over the History graph, a little popup of information will appear. It provides the name of the process taking CPU cycles at that moment, the amount of Kernal CPU used, and the timestamp of that timeslice.
Note that when idle, even with other programs running, CPU will average probably around 5% with some peaks into the teens. Float the pointer over a couple of the peaks and get used to how it looks.
Now, leaving the System information running, start ANY Alawar game. If you have dual monitors, you can put the System information panel in the monitor you know the game will not use and monitor in real time. If not, it is no big deal as the history holds a couple of minutes of data.
After you start the program, let it run for about a minute or so. Play or not if you want, it will ont affect the readings.
Now, exit the game. Be amazed and horrified at the amount of CPU usage of ANY Alawar game. I also test screensavers this way, and Astro Gemini exhibits the same problem.
Float the pointer over the graph. Note that the game will demand kernal instructions for about 85% of CPU usage, with the rest instructions from the game itself.
Why such a high demand?
I run an X-Box emulator, with Halo 3 running and it NEVER gets to this high a level.
The problem is, those with old systems are frying thier CPU's. Even some new, off the shelf systems are horribly undercooled, and running this game or the AG screensavers is cooking thier machines to death. I ran this test on a an older Compac, and it cranked the temp up to 120 degrees F.
Another issue is that in many cases, off the shelf systems install the temperature sensors as a diode under the chip. This method is all too frequently off by as much as 20 degrees F too cool. That means that many people reading a temp of 100 are actually at 120 or even higher, due not only to known tem differences due to intallation, but also due to time lag in reading the temp increase in core temperature.
If the temp gets to 120, you could be damaging your CPU. Over 130 and you ARE damaging you CPU, and may be damaging the capacitors on the motherboard.
Even some dust partially blocking a vent while running Alaware games or AG SC's is sufficient that the heat is damaging people's computers.
Please don't bore us with bogus log files of CPU use, as almost none of the programs that generate those logs read CPU kernal usage by a program. In fact, of all the programs I've ever tested, only the Sysinternals Process Explorer reports kernal usage consistently.
The other issue I've noticed, also using Process Explorer, is that many AG SC's start other processes, particularly services, that a screensaver should not need.
The technique for tracking those issues is more complicated, so let me just point to System Internal's Mark Rasmussen who gave a quite good turorial using Process Explorer.
http://www.microsoft.com/emea/spotlight/Mark_Russinovich_Advanced_Malware_Cleaning.aspxI would like a GOOD explaination for why such simple games are cooking people's CPU's. As I've said, I think it is simply poor programming. A lack of decent response could mean a more malevolent intent; perhaps there is intent to try to cook old machines, or jsut an "I don't care" attitude, which is also malevolent enough to question the value of these games and SC's.
Posted 17 years ago # -
You are asking the wrong people.
"Why the high CPU usage?" is something only alawar could answer.
Posted 17 years ago # -
FreewareFan
Member@hempman
I cannot answer your question, but I can offer you the solution. I too, was concerned about the high temps of my cpu when playing certain games, and after a long and tedious search, found the perfect solution. It's a program called CPU Eat 'n' Cool. I used to max out my temps playing certain games, but now, using that program, I can control the temps very nicely. I've never had a program that delivers as promised as well as this one does. And of course, it's free! As far as the tech's of how it works, and why it works, just read up on it, and you'll see for yourself.
Give it a try, and post back with your results, or if you need suggestions as to settings, just ask here, and I'll be happy to share what I use.
Later....
Posted 17 years ago # -
Hempman
MemberThanks for the heads up, FreewareFan. Don't need it personally, though. I have a homemade liquid cooling system that makes sure my temps never get over 97 degrees F. It is on a dual chip/dual core AMD 64 system, mounted on a high end Gigabyte motherboard with three huge fans in addition to the water system. Gigabyte and AMD provide software that dynamically runs fans and even throttles the CPU's. But Alawar and AG programs seem to override the throttling (but not the fans, thankfully.)
I posted the tech info and question because I can't recommend Alawar games to my userbase because of the CPU jamming. There just is no rational reason for it.
I did ask Alawar, but never got an answer. My post in the forums there got deleted. I hope it is just amateur programming and a don't care attitude. I'd hate to think there was a more malevolent purpose.
I thought to post the question here because I think game fans should be aware that the Alawar games and AG SC's could be causing heat damage to thier machines.
I do like the games, but I can't recommend them because of this issue, and many of my userbase have ancient machines (and I'm the "guy who family, friends and neighbors go to" with computer problems, so I'd have to fix things if this stuff did damage.).
BTW, executing HTL during loads like I am discussing is not only a bad idea, it will not do anything to keep the computer cooler. I note that not one review has been written about this software (at least, not anywhere with a decent reputation).
Posted 17 years ago # -
FreewareFan
MemberYou stated this in your last post:
"BTW, executing HTL during loads like I am discussing is not only a bad idea, it will not do anything to keep the computer cooler. I note that not one review has been written about this software (at least, not anywhere with a decent reputation)."
Well, I don't see how you can make that statement, in view of the fact that you said yourself that you DON'T use the program. Well, I'm here to say again, I DO use the program, and it DOES keep my cpu MUCH cooler, and by an amount that I can directly control through the program settings. That is why I offered to share my settings with you, see?
I don't care who has, or has not, made a review of any particular program. What matters the most to me is simply one thing.... Does it work? I'm not making a review of this program, I'm simply testifying to the fact that it does, indeed, work, whether you care to believe it or not.
In any event, since you do not have need for the program, this is all so much wasted 1's and 0's where you are concerned. Others reading this post, however, may have need of this program, and it is to those readers that I say again, " Try it, you'll see for yourself!"
Posted 17 years ago # -
Hempman
MemberI ran Cool n Eat under the same test conditions I spoke to above. It did absolutely nothing to stop the Alawar CPU jamming.
I also speak to invoking HLT as a programmer. Executing this code under the conditions I described is simply a bad idea. The least problem is that executing the halt instruction under certain circumstances will cause some programs to hang. In other cases, it will cause the motherboard to freeze. In other cases, executing priviledge instructions could compromise the security of the computer on a very deep level.
That last would explain why the Cool n Eat program is a vector for hackers.
This doesn't even cover the annoying buzz introduced into the sound card, or the weird jerkiness in the GUI.
BTW, every Windows OS after 2k does a version of this anyway, and it is absolutely unnecesary if one's computer runs ACPI. The word redundant comes to mind.
Something tells me that the explainations would simply be over your head, or you'd already know these issues and why any of this would happen.
The simplest explaination is - why would anyone intentionally run a program, that is a target of hackers, executing priveledged instructions, to kludge thier system up and make it run slower, when the answer is to fix the pi$$ poor programming that is the real cause of CPU jamming?
So, I say the same thing that you say - Run Process Explorer as I recommend above, run the Cool n Eat program, run an Alawar game or AG SC and watch the CPU load. Oops, no effect! The sum of kernel mode execution and user instructions remains jammed at 100%.
Try it yourself and see.
Something tells me you read your horoscope and believe in biorhythms.
Posted 17 years ago # -
he least problem is that executing the halt instruction under certain circumstances will cause some programs to hang. In other cases, it will cause the motherboard to freeze. In other cases, executing priviledge instructions could compromise the security of the computer on a very deep level.
I'd be interested to read any references you have to support this conclusion.
In particular what these "certain circumstances" are.In terms of ACPI - the C-State (C1 Halt) is initiated simply by executing the "Halt" assembly instruction (HLT). What is this C-State for?
- This will stop the instruction pipeline within the CPU from executing any instructions.
- Wake-up time is ultra fast (only about 10 nano seconds).
- The CPU is able to save up to 70% of its maximum power consumption.
- All modern processors must support this power state.
why would anyone intentionally run a program, that is a target of hackers, executing priveledged instructions, to kludge thier system up and make it run slower, when the answer is to fix the pi$$ poor programming that is the real cause of CPU jamming?
Actually the "target of hackers" is just your opinion. How many systems have you come across the last year, with "CPU Eat'n'Cool" installed. Not much of a target really? Some people would argue that "Windows" is the target of hackers.
Executing privileged instructions - such as how "Process Explorer" operates (not that I have a problem with "privileged instructions" - whether they are good or bad depends on how they are used to meet the needs of the user. They are "just instructions"). As an aside, Sysinternals Process Explorer is blacklisted by software such as Securom - because Process Explorer also loads a kernel mode device driver - which could be used for "hacking purposes".
Why would they run a solution like this instead of fixing the "poor programming" ("Poor" because Hempman would develop these differently. Of course these games were probably developed to run on as many platforms as possible - so some design choices were probably made. Hempman wasn't invited to the meeting.)
If you are worried about compromised security at a "very deep level", CPU jamming, hackers, privileged instructions, horoscopes or biorhythms - don't run this "CPU Eat n Cool". Your life will be all the better for it.
If you are worried about your CPU burning out, or erupting into a raging inferno and burning down your house - also do not participate in any of the "Distributed Computing" (ie SETI style) programs.... or run Alawar games.
As for
Something tells me that the explainations would simply be over your head, or you'd already know these issues and why any of this would happen.
I understand the issues. Not so much your explanations. Having a kernel mode driver running in high priority and forcing the CPU into a C2 power state (even for 70 miliseconds) should in theory reduce the power usage of the CPU (read as a "heat reduction"). Yes there is going to be a performace hit - 2 processes sharing a cpu is slower than 1 process with the cpu all to itself.
Posted 17 years ago # -
FreewareFan
Member@ hempman You seem to have misunderstood my original post. I clearly said that I did not have an answer to your question of the maxed out CPU usage. Go back and read it again, perhaps you missed that.
What I did was to address your original comment of "I would like a GOOD explaination for why such simple games are cooking people's CPU's."
Again, just so that you can comprehend my words, I will say, " I cannot answer why the high CPU usage."
However, I CAN address the issue of "cooking people's CPU's."
You seem, during all your intensive testing, to have missed the prime purpose of the program, CPU Eat 'n' Cool. Allow me to enlighten you as to it's purpose. The purpose is NOT to reduce CPU cycles, but to reduce the temperature of the CPU, thus avoiding, in your words... "cooking people's CPU's." See, maybe the word "COOL" in the program's name should have been an indicator? You think? But then again, how could you have known the true purpose of this program? After all, you have a liquid cooled system, and could not have possibly known of the positive effects of running this program while the cpu was being run at 100%.
In closing, I address the rest of the readers of this forum. This program WILL enable your system to run much cooler, when ANY games, regardless of author, max out your CPU. It will require you to spend about 30 minutes to find the right settings for your particular system's configuration, but in the end, is time well spent. If the high heat of your cpu incurred during running a particular game is your concern, this is one solution.
At the end of the day, faithful forum readers, the choice is yours to make. You can either investigate my offer of information, or reject it and throw it out the window. As for me, I am happy to have found a solution for keeping my system nice and cool during maxed out cpu conditions, all the while without incurring any sound card problems, nor any weird jerkiness.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to check my biorhythms..... :-)
Posted 17 years ago # -
Although I did notice the latest build of this application is from March of 2006 I believe. I figured I'd try it out in XP compatability mode with with my Vista system. That was the first time I've ever seen a BSOD. It then promptly rebooted itself. So, I would not suggest this thing for anyone else that has Vista.
Posted 17 years ago # -
FreewareFan
MemberI use WinXP Pro, and have never encountered the dreaded BSOD. I guess you Vista users will have to look for another answer to the problem..
Posted 17 years ago # -
RichU
Member(An off topic post) Although I have nothing to add to the technical aspects of this thread, I would like to express my admiration for Bubby and Freewarefan for taking the high road and addressing problems with the content or logic of a person's post, rather than attacking that person's character or mental ability. Thank you!
Posted 17 years ago # -
I have to totally agree with you RichU. I've noticed that some of these threads recently are starting to remind me of a episode of Jerry Springer (without the visuals of course).
Posted 17 years ago # -
(In reply to the 2 previous posts) All user posts should "play the ball, not the man". I'm more than happy to remove posts and/or users who don't play nice.
If anyone finds posts that are offensive, or mean spirited comments directed towards other users - PM any of the moderators (including myself) with a link to the post.
</end community service announcement>
Posted 17 years ago # -
NolafromNZ
MemberI would like to add my two cents worth here, whenever I play Snowy Treasure Hunter, or Snowy Treasure Hunter 2 (which I love), my system crashes due to overheating. I have an Acer Aspire 3000 notebook with 1gb ram, some sort of AMD processor (not technical, me!)that I purchased in August 2005. I also have a cooling pad with 2 fans that is always working, and these are the only 2 games that keep crashing. Needless to say I haven't got very far in the games and I'm playing the same bits over and over again. Getting darn good at them too, after playing about 3 levels a few thousand times!
I queried in the forum some months ago because a lot of my games were crashing and giving me a screen with vertical coloured stripes and I was advised to vacuum it regularly and get a cooling pad which I did within a few days. And, until these two programs I have had no further problems.
So, I was very interested in CPU Eat n Cool and downloaded it forthwith and the accompanying MBM5 program they suggested, but I am such a thicko, I can't work out what my settings should be. You mention half an hour to get to grips with it Freeware Fan - It took me a lot longer than that to get absolutely nowhere. I had two choices in the program, tried one then the other, but I am lost. I will keep trying though, because I love the two Snowy's and want to play them all the way through, and I suspect that this program is the answer to my problem. Either that, or a new computer.
Posted 17 years ago # -
FreewareFan
MemberHello, NolafromNZ!
It will be my pleasure to try to help you with the settings of CPU Eat 'n' Cool.
I don't use MBM, so I can't help you there. I also use a laptop computer, and a cooling pad, so I can relate to some of your experiences. Mine has never crashed nor shutdown due to the cpu reaching the melting point, but before using CPU EnC, it would reach temps of 61 degrees C a few times, which is hotter than I like to run it.
The following setting for CPU EnC keeps the temp at 48-49 degrees C, using 100% cpu, on my system.
Set the Sleeping Time to 3ms, and the Boost Factor to 2x. Also, make sure that the radio button on the top right reads "Active". Then, minimize the program, and go play your game. See how things go.. Let me know, and if you need further suggestions, we can go from here. Have fun!
Posted 17 years ago # -
Whiterabbit-uk
Games GuruHempman, I’ve seen you mention the situation with respect to Alawar games running the CPU hot (i.e. at 100% usage) several times in the comments section of the Giveaway and Game Giveaway projects, and would agree with you about it not being particularly good for a CPU to be running at full capacity for long periods, however, that depends upon what else you have within the computer and consequentially the heat being given off all the hardware within the case. Provided the computer is adequately ventilated and cooled with suitable cooling fans, it should not be a problem because the CPU was designed to be able to run at such speeds. (If I’m wrong about that, then please just point me in the direction of some peer reviewed material, so that I can understand better, thanks) I know for certain that my two dual core CPU’s have the ability to be over-clocked by up to 25% without causing undue stress on them; so I would hope that running both of them at the advertised clock speeds would then allow them to be run at maximum capacity, i.e. 100% however that said, if what you say is true (about the potential danger of damage due to overheating) I would be worried. But surly a computer would freeze if the CPU tried to run a game that used 100% of the systems CPU power as you say it does; when other background processes, especially the OS itself also require a portion of the CPU’s resources to run as well? The game and windows alone would take the CPU above and beyond its capabilities.
All this is hypothetically speaking of course – after all I’m only an interested layman who is picking up knowledge piece meal as and when the subject crops up for discussion, or when I’m interested for whatever reason about the internal workings of my computers; partly from what people such as yourself share and what I read about; so some of my thinking may be a little grey or even totally off base, although I don’t think I’m totally wrong; however if I am I apologize)
=============================================================
Anyway I was concerned enough to check out your statement by testing several games from Alawar such as Zak & Jack in Showdown at Monstertown, Snowy: The Bears Adventure and Hyperballoid then running games from several other developers. I even tested the same game under the same conditions apart from the speed of the CPU (by using two different computers), and found what you say is just not true from my perspective. After checking the Alawar games, all of which ran at around 50% or less of cpu usage, I then tried games from several other developers; trying a range of games that I consider fast and furious, for example; games such as Reflexives – Ricochet Infinity’ and Awem Studios – Star Defender 4 then I progressed onto more sedate games like Grim Inventions – Little Gods and Cinemax’s - Gumboy: Crazy Adventure’. I also looked at a few medium speed games such as Atlantis Quest. None of these games came close to 100% CPU usage. (All were around the 40 to 50% mark). When the computer was idle (with no games running) the CPU usage was around 1 to 3%. On turning on and starting any of the games I’ve mentioned above, the indicator on the graph showed very little difference between any of the games; although a couple of the images I’ve included in the link below show peaks up to 100%; however these were caused by other things such as repeated clicking of the screen capture device as well as changing over the game while using the same graph recording, so those area’s you can see with jumps up to 100% are when I was loading up a new game. The graphs from all the other games were from clean starts, so the graphs look a lot smoother, with no change over occurring.
I actually tried both the process manager and the task manager’s performance windows and found no difference in the figures. (It had ‘worried’ me that using the program you suggested may have been the problem as initially I’d been checking the CPU usage using the task managers graph only). Anyway I downloaded the process managers file from the link you provided above (it was the top download at the time I downloaded it) and am very pleased with it. Provided I keep the shortcut on the desk top and I’m nor running programs in full screen, it’s much easier to access, and as you said, there’s a lot more information available about your computer as well as a far better graphical representation of the parameters most useful to know)
I also tested your ‘hypotheses’ on two of my computers, a dual core (x2) 2.1GHz cpu and a dual core (x2) 3.0GHz cpu, both with 4GB of RAM attached. (Windows XP with SP 2 will only let me utilize 3.7Gb of it though. I turned off all programs running in the background from both computers that I was able to from the task bar next to the clock then ran the same game (Atlantis Quest) from the same point, with the options set the same and one read 47% usage and the other 48% usage, which would indicate to me that it shouldn’t matter what your computer is as long as it fulfills the required recommendations. See the screen captures below:
All on one page;
http://s109.photobucket.com/albums/n61/Whiterabbit_01/gaotd/Alawar%20cpu%20usage/?
As a slideshow:
The images are not brilliant, but if you look at the name of the game indicated on the graphs you can just about make out the % CPU usage. I didn’t want to spend all afternoon messing with screen captures just to get a better example, so hopefully the ones I’ve posted a link to below will show what I mean.
It would be interesting to see a comparison made by yourself between several games with a protracted run of the graph for each example.
I cannot explain why your computer is showing 100% usage for Alawar. When you say 100%, do you mean 100% all the time, or 100% in spikes?
I (obviously) have no idea as to what your system spec are, or whether you maintain your computers regularly; what I mean by that is, do you have a reasonable new rig, or a relatively old one, (I seem to remember you saying you had at least a couple, or more )? Also, do you defrag’ you drive regularly? That is, following any deletion and installation of a program or programs? As I’m sure you know already, to maintain the best possible efficiency at running any program, be it an application, or a game, de-fragmentation should be done very regularly, especially if you do a lot of downloading and deleting, and or moving of files from one disc to another. I have my drives virtually 100% de-fragmented ‘all’ the time because I use a decent program (Diskeeper Pro) that maintains my HDD’s when the system is switch on and running idle. (which they are a lot, as I have them on virtually 24/7. If your HDD was fragmented, and the Alawar games files were spread about the drive, this may cause some increase in CPU usage (although I’m not 100% sure about that)
Please don’t take offence at my query. As I said above; it concerned me that what you were saying could be true (and in your case I’m sure it is) and if so I wouldn’t want to be playing Alawar Games much even if they were the best games going, (not that I think they are as there are other software houses out there that are just as good), simply because I couldn’t afford to replace my CPU’s at this moment in time. Both of the computers I used for the test were built this year. I’m not usually in the habit of building 2 a year let alone one. I only built two because I wanted to prepare for the recently released games such as Crysis and other games such as UT 2007 {which arrived only this morning and when installed and running used up around 70% of the CPU}, CoD 4 and MOH airborne, Hellgate and Bioshock. The first two I’d had on pre-order since late last year. So wanted to ensure I had a rig that would enable me to enjoy the full blown graphics that these games have. All of which are CPU intensive. I’d have loved to buy a quad core, but
a) They are too expensive still, and
b) I don’t know how many games are compatible with a quad core yet, lol. Anyway I digress (as usual),I do hope that you can discover why you should be getting such high usage figures and if you can’t fix it I also hope it doesn’t spoil your pleasure at playing games distributed by Alawar :) By the way, what are your system specifications and what sort of background programs are running? (I only ask out of curiosity). :)
Regards
WhiteRabbit
Thanks for the heads up on the process explorer Hempman and to Freeware fan, I have cool and quiet technology running with the MoBo, but will try the software you suggest as well to see if it adds to all the other cooling I have.
btw, sorry to ask questions you've already answered re your system, ie cooling parameters. I missed it until after I'd written this. My heads too fuzzy to check back over the comment I've made to make any changes. :)
Posted 17 years ago # -
wiz011
MemberI also wonder why most of simple games use 100% of CPU power? I have AMD Athlon64 and instead of original AMD CnQ driver I use freeware RightMark CPU Clock Utility (it can be also used for Intel CPU's):
With this excellent utility I always can choose power saving profile and keep the CPU cool and in the same time still enough powerful for many tasks (in everyday use "Performance on Demand" is chosen). Right now, my CPU works on 1.2 GHz and the CPU core temperature is 31.8 °C, when some application needs more power RightMark switch to higher voltages and clock rates (the maximum on my PC is 2.4 GHz and in such case the CPU temp is 56-58 °C).
WhiteRabbit, I think that you measure about 50% of CPU usage because the game uses only one core of two cores on your CPU, that's equivalent to 100% usage on some single core CPU.
OT for WhiteRabbit
Stephen, why you don't publish your extensive and really excellent game reviews on some dedicated site or some blog, similar to BladedThoth practice?
Posted 17 years ago # -
NolafromNZ
MemberHi Freeware Fan, Thank you so much for your settings. I applied them and this time I lasted for half an hour on Snowy Treasure Hunter 2 before the system crashed. This is about 25 minutes longer than I have ever lasted before, so it is a huge improvement. So, on rebooting, I went into Snowy Treasure Hunter and I lasted longer than half an hour, in fact, for the first time ever, I actually got out of the game without it crashing. So, a huge thumbs up for the Eat n Cool program, and a huge thumbs up to you for your help. I am very grateful to you and appreciate your help.
As an aside, both of these programs are Alawar and were downloaded from the GGOTD site. I have bought Snowy Treasure Hunter 3 from BigFishGames and it has never crashed once.
To Wiz011, if you have read the comments under all the games, at least 95% of us prefer Stephen's wonderful reviews to be part of the comments, not somewhere else. Extensive comments have been made about this subject over the last couple of weeks, so most of us feel very strongly about this. Most of us read Stephen's review to tell us whether to download the game or not.
Posted 17 years ago # -
FreewareFan
MemberHey, that's good news, Nola! Progress! Try to set the Sleeping Time to 2ms and see what happens. Also, I thought I'd mention a program that can help you to monitor your cpu temps, along with the HD temp and Charge/Discharge Battery rate on your laptop. It's called MobileMeter, and you can get it at http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-Oakland/8259/
I depend on this program much to monitor my cpu temps in real time.
So, try that 2ms setting and see how it goes. I'll be waiting to hear from you.
Posted 17 years ago # -
FreewareFan
MemberNolafromNZ, a thought came to me. I was just thinking that really, your system shouldn't be shutting down just because you are using 100% cpu. I mean, I regularly use mine at 100% to do video conversions, and it runs that way for hours. My cooling fans run at max that whole time, but they do keep the cpu at about 61 degrees C so that the system doesn't do a shutdown. I believe that the critical temp for my P4 is close to 70C, from my memory.
Anyways, my thoughts are this: If I were you, I'd open the case on that laptop and do some housecleaning. Over the course of time, the cooling fans attract dust on the blades, which degrade their ability to cool the system properly. Give them a good cleaning, and anything that looks dusty and dirty while you're in there. You could also take the opportunity to actually remove the heatsink/fan assembly, and to apply some top notch heatsink paste, Arctic Silver 5 if you can get it/afford it. I'm willing to bet that the combination of those two things would help MUCH in keeping your system running cooler. If you do not have the experience to open your laptop yourself, you could take it to a reputable shop to have the general maintenance done, for not too much, I'm thinking, since it's just a quick clean, no actual repair work needed. I do all my own repairs/maintenance, so I can't really quote you a price for such services.
Anyways, if my laptop was shutting down, that's the first thing I'd do....
Posted 17 years ago # -
NolafromNZ
MemberHi again Freeware Fan,
I loaded up Mobile Meter and have it sitting in the tray alongside CPUEatnCool. I have been using Hard Drive Inspector for Notebooks, a recent GOTD. I do notice with that program, the temp has dropped from usually betwen 36.0 to 39.0 degrees, right down to 32.0 to 33.0 degrees. And while with this program right now I am on 33 degrees, Mobile Meter tells me I am on 60 degrees. (Well, while I am sitting here watching it, it is moving between 52 and 62 degrees over a few minutes.) By the way, MM told me that my critical ACPI temperature was 97.0 C and the passive cooling temperature was 93.0 degrees. Does that sound right? Is this where I should be looking for the critical temperature? Hard Drive Inspector tells me my critical temperature is 55.0 C.
Changed to 2ms as suggested, but still only got half an hour the first time I played. The second time I lasted longer though, and all up, it is a great improvement on only being able to play 1 or 2 levels before I crash.
On your cleaning suggestion, I do vacuum the outside thoroughly at least once a month, but when I mentioned to the seller about the inside, they said the laptop is sealed so, not to worry. So, if it isn't sealed, I WILL worry! (I had to clean the inside of my desktop regularly too, we have 3 hairy german shepherds, 4 hairy cats and at least 200 chickens scratching in the dirt outside, so the place gets pretty dusty and dirty.)
The laptop is still under warranty and I have been told by the seller (Dick Smith Electronics) that my opening the case could void the warranty and I won't get them to do it, as I then don't see the laptop for the next 2 weeks, it has to be sent to a big main centre and they take their sweet time repairing, cleaning, etc. And, I can't be without a laptop for 2 weeks, what would I do all day? (Certainly not clean the house, lol) Seriously, it would be unthinkable not to have a computer for longer than a day! However, I will talk to John (friendly comp tech), about an internal clean and the heatsink stuff that you suggested. I have printed out what you wrote to take into him next time I go to town (3/4s of an hour away, so I don't go in often.) I'd be happy to open the laptop myself and have a go, if not for the salesman's warning. (I got the warning recently when I wanted the ram upgraded from 512mb, DSE didn't have any DDR333 ram (too old), so I had to get a computer technician to supply AND FIT it (which I could have done!) and be able to produce an invoice to that effect if I had to send the laptop in under warranty, otherwise it would be void.)
But, the strange thing is that my laptop only shuts down for those 2 Alawar games, no others.
I am very grateful for your help Freeware Fan, I really appreciate all that you do for me and others. This forum is fantastic, as are a particular few, including you, who spend a lot of time helping others. Thank you.
Posted 17 years ago # -
FreewareFan
MemberHi Nola, two quick questions... 1st, what is the CPU that you have in your laptop?
2end. If your laptop is still under warranty, then definitely do NOT open the case, because I would not want you to void your warranty. Plus, if it is still under warranty, then chances of it being that dirty is pretty low...
Posted 17 years ago # -
NolafromNZ
MemberHi Freeware Fan, The laptop is an Acer Aspire 3000, with a 1.6g AMD Sempron 2800+ cpu, with 1gb ram, 60gb internal hard drive, 1 x 160gb external hd and 1 x 320gb external hd (this used to image the other 2). I have a 2.2 USB hub with 3/4 out of the 8 slots always used, but everything on it has its own power supply, except for a USB full keyboard. I am using XP SP2 build 2600.
I purchased it in August 2005, and got an extended warranty for a total of 4 years altogether (the original 1yr and 3 yrs extended)
Hope that's what you were looking for.
Posted 17 years ago # -
FreewareFan
MemberOK, Nola, give me a while, and I'll go find some specs on your cpu and see what the temps should be.
Posted 17 years ago # -
FreewareFan
MemberOK, Nola. You said "Hard Drive Inspector tells me my critical temperature is 55.0 C." I went direct to AMD's site, and downloaded the spec sheet for your cpu, and it says on page 21 that the top thermal limit of your cpu is 90 degrees C +or- 10% . So, it looks like MM is much, much closer to the actual specs than Hard Drive Inspector is.
The thing is, HDI may be getting it's thermal reading from one of the motherboard temp sensors, whereas MM gets it's reading from the cpu pinout. Basically what that means is that MM will get a true heat reading from the cpu, before the heat has dissipated some and traveled a short distance to the Mobo heat sensor.
I'm not a brilliant engineer or anything close to that, it's just what I've learned through my own experiences.
The bottom line, I suppose is this... Just keep dropping that Sleeping Time factor down to where you can still play the game without it getting jumpy on you. If you get to a Sleeping time of 1ms, and the game still plays fine, but your laptop still shuts off, then start with new settings of Boost Factor of 3x, and Sleeping Time of 3ms and see how that acts. Just play around with the settings, and you'll be able to find the right combination for your system. The basic concept is that the higher the Boost factor, and the lower the Sleeping time is, the cooler the cpu will run, BUT the worse the performance of the game will be. Jumpy and all that. You have to find the right balance.
Let me know how it goes, eh? :-)
Posted 17 years ago #
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