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Firefox vs. IE7

(43 posts) (14 voices)

Started 17 years ago by Archangel
Latest reply from BuBBy

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Archangel
Member

Things seem alittle slow here at the GOTD forum and a good topic came up in another thread that needs to be discussed.

I'm an old IE diehard user. Since MS started everything off in a big way, I used what they supplied. I've seen other browsers come and go but one that has caught on and stayed is Firefox.

I've never tried it because way back when it began, I saw a bunch of conflicts that had to be addressed and felt like the having both to compare side by side would conflict with my system because of addon's that I have.

Whats the strong points and short comings of both Browsers. If your like me and use IE7 post what you think. Firefox people, please do the same so we can all get educated and make an informed decision.

Thanks,
Archangel
================================================
Hopefully every active user of the forum will post at least once in this thread. I wonder how many we actually have because some never register and just read. (I did that for awhile)

Please post your thoughts.

Posted 17 years ago #
BigThunder1
Member

I know I posted in the other thread earlier, but I'll get back to ya. Got some pressing matters to deal with. ;)

Posted 17 years ago #
Anonymous
Unregistered

Sorry to burst your bubble, M$ didn't start browsers atall.

The first was: NCSA Mosaic.

Opera and Netscape came well before Internet Explorer.

If my memory serves, it was released with Windows 95.

Posted 17 years ago #
Archangel
Member

No bubble bursted here. Sorry to burst yours! (reread my post. I stated that "I used what they supplied)! When I said in a big way I was talking about the first "Friendly" or "Simple" operating system that went world wide. I was still using DOS and a menu type system when 95 came out and then came my adventure with windows. (I only did that because most software was being created for windows at that time) And you said it, Explorer came with it. I knew then that IE would get much more support from MS because they included it with there OS.

So your throwing in Netscape Navigator and Opera too? LOL Didn't like Net Nav at all and opera. Lee............LOL your funny.

BTW and I may not be remembering it correctly but I thought IE came in a later addition of 3.1

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

Another thread discussion on IE/FF?

Posted 17 years ago #
Jucati
Member

I invite everyone reading this thread to visit http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/default.asp

Not only will it provide you with technical stats regarding each of the most popular browsers, but it also tells you what percent of the internet is using which browser and OS. Nearly 3/4ths of the internet uses Windows XP! (what I find most interesting is the number of Mac users compared to the number of Safari users, but that's kind of off-topic...)

Personally, I prefer FireFox. When I first got "the internet" we used Netscape (Win 3.1 iirc), and for a very long time IE had a reputation for being very unstable and not very secure, so I've always shied away from it. I use it from time to time when I need to test a website or if something just won't load right in Firefox... but the latter is often the fault of the web designer and not the browser.

Ultimately though, it's just a preference. For the very average user (who doesn't care about add-ons or the way it looks, for example) as long as the program works/does what it says it will, there's no reason to not use what the computer comes with.

Posted 17 years ago #
BigThunder1
Member

@ Archangel:

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, but I have some very pressing business to deal with here suddenly. If I appear to disappear for a bit here_(GOTD), I'll be back. I won't give details because it's personal, but I thought I'd comment here about this so no one wonders where BigThunder1 is if this takes some time to deal with.

You asked in the other thread why I prefer Firefox to others (IE... HA!) from a users POV. Honestly, I'm not very focused due to the 'business' I mention arising suddenly for me. Once the dust settles (may be a while for me) I'll be happy to elaborate my likes and dislikes. Suffice it to say that Ff is THE most customizable browser in existence today, is one of the most secure, and can be setup to do virtually anything you want in a browser. There is no other browser in existence today that offers the capabilities through customization that Ff does. Looks, functions, features, and everything in between. There are extensions to keep your shopping/grocery list handy and printable when you go to the store, track weather, color code tabs or tab text, place tabs top / bottom / or either side vertically, an IRC client called 'ChatZilla' that works right in the browser, the ability to configure the way the browser works/reacts to your needs via 'About:Config' (accessed from the help drop-down menu) etc. etc. etc.. Like and use search engines? There are plug-ins and extensions that will give search engines for every site type you can imagine. One developer has a popular search engine extension that he'll customize for site requests submitted; very impressive list already available with just a mouse click via the extension properties dialog.

The list features capability and customization is only limited by ones imagination if one can code and build their own extensions, yet this isn't necessary because the available extensions written by others around the glob are mind boggling. Can't code, don't see what you want?; post a request in the forums and someone may like the idea and work with you and others interested and code it! No other browser on the market can match it's ability to design and set up the way YOU want, not the way it's dished out like others on the market. Many popular extensions/features have become incorporated into future versions. The community support is warm and endless if you need help, and a knowledge base that's full of info for all from n00bs to developers. Setup can be from mild to wild depending on your needs or desires.

I can't say enough here about Ff and it's ability to satisfy virtually any feature/function you could want in a browser, and some you never even imagined or thought existed. Now thanks to BuBBy for the link to the other thread on this subject (which I forgot about), he answered and referenced so much it's pretty much a mute point for me to repeat or attempt to. I've used Ff since v0.7.3 and have never looked back. Still need IE?, install the extension and run IE right inside Ff as a tab! You don't need to worry about browser compatibility. I've had Ff, Opera, Maxthon, and a couple off beat browsers installed all at the same time on one PC and had one two or three open at the same time. I dumped them all and use Ff exclusively. I even do MS updates via the IE tab extension which allows you to white-list sites to open with it if needed whenever you go to that particular site. Like anything there's a little learning curve at first, but it won't take a couple hours (if you don't get lost on the extensions pages for day's on end fawning over the discoveries and availability) and you'll have a browser that rivals all others, bar none!

Try it, you'll like it!! ;) Firefox Ff Add-Ons

While your at it get the complimentary email client called Thunderbird TB Add-Ons

Posted 17 years ago #
hamstergirl
Member

Hello Everyone,

Archangel, I think we've been here before (LOL!) One of my first posts in the forum was about my problem with the Fox and this site (and a couple of others as well). I am surprised at the response (or lack of) for this thread. Always thought this was a heated debate........

Here's my two cents; I'm in the Firefox camp. But its sort of hard to elaborate - BigThunder1 is a tough act to follow!

Back in 1998 when my nephew was still living with us, he had a pc up and running for a time. We had the choice of either IE (don't recall the version) or Netscape, and I remember having to constantly swap between the two for whichever one was functional that particular week! heh he he ......So, when I was having my internet connection installed here last December, the guy from Comcast just mentioned that I might like to try a browser called Firefox. He said it was the most popular alternative to IE and that lots of people were using it. What is interesting about this is that Comcast does not offer support for problems with FF. or any browser other than IE - I found that out when I couldn't log into this forum as well as a few others, or get my Comcast e-mail with FF and tried to get their help. I finally solved my problem with an un/reinstall, but for a few weeks, it was just like the late 90's again - swapping back and forth between browsers. I found myself floundering every time I was using IE and out of habit, reaching for a FF add-on that wasn't there.

BigThunder1 has already listed all the things I prefer (and then some heh hehe!). What I would like to hear are some of the reasons people are partial to IE. I think it really just boils down to what you feel comfortable or familiar with. Plus, many of the sites I frequent are designed to work better (or so they say) with FireFox - well, maybe not any of Microsoft's! It always seems to crash there for some reason.....

One thing I do like are the "dark" themes FF has. No, not the evil ones.....(sorry). I currently am using the Harley Davidson theme. Yes, it does have personal significance, but it also is easier on my eyes....whenever I have to use IE, its like staring into a light bulb!

And finally, I recently tried Opera. Why? For a .....um, for a widget, okay - the one that looks like a sketchbook (two dozen graphics programs and still chasing after widgets.....therapy doesn't seem to be working very well). Only kept it around for an evening (what, I need another browser? - the sketchbook sucked eggs thank you very much), but I sure liked the way all those little windows on the screen looked......!

Cheers
hamstergirl

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

Not to make it sound like there is something wrong with people who use IE. I know a couple of normal people who use IE and they seem to be reasonably well adjusted. In fact if you were standing in line behind them at the shops, you probably wouldn't even know.

The biggest difference I would say is that at a party or over dinner, IE users tend to not talk a lot about internet browsers. Most of them don't care what other people use - because after all, it's "just a browser". However, those three words "just a browser" to a firefox user is like scraping fingernails down a blackboard.

As a fortunate Firefox user, I sometimes wonder what I can do to make a difference - to make the world a happier place to live. I believe I have found the solution - I am calling on Firefox users everywhere, to sponsor an IE user. For as little as a few dollars a day, you can bring hope to an Internet Explorer user - and eventually to their entire community.

Act today. Bring a smile to the face of an IE user - and make a difference. 8D

Cheers,
BuBBy.

Posted 17 years ago #
ender
Member

@BigThunder: thank you for your extensive review.
i am expecially interested in the part, where you mentioned //

see, the thing is, why i have not feel the urge to change to the firefox user camp is, I have been starting to use maxthon roughly about 5 years ago, and have known tabs, and extensions and plugins, and an enthusiastic community which i have been a member of for all that time now.

according to the maxthin counter, they have over 100 Mio dls.
of course, i know the number of firefox, and those are believe to be over 200 Mio dls, since it been turned into a foundation, and has lots of computer magazines who helps to spread the word.
The thing is, i have my maxthon (which is, to be fully clear here, is an add-on for IE, both working for 6 and 7) fully customized with roughly about 30 plugins, and optimized for my daily use.
And so far, i have not seen a really strong argument for me personally to turn to ff.
I have about 50 tabs opened , when i start going online. when maxthon crashes (nearly never in M1, very often in M2, which is still very buggy, i find), there is the recovery function, which they have as a build in for nearly 3 years now.
I had been loving and appreciating the recovery function for several month in maxthon, before i read in magazines, that firefox was going to have this function.

So, my serious question to you, BigThunder, as one, who found firefox superior to any other browser, or add-on (I am very aware, there are many other add-ons besides maxthon for Internet explorer):
what is the strongest point in your opinion, why a satisfied maxthon user should change to firefox.

I would love to hear an answer that, if possible, would focus on the functionality, and not, what every magazin is repeating:
that firefox is superior, because its higher safety.
( i wish, I could say with certainty, that FF is safer. or that IE is much less secure. but alas, i have read too much sites like this:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/SupportCD/FirefoxMyths.html)

i know, that for me, the race and the competition is, unlike maybe many other, normal *average* users, is NOT between firefox and IE.
But between Firefox, and Maxthon.
so, it might not be the correct thread to post my question to Bigthunder.

If you do mind as a thread starter, Archangel, then I will opend my own thread.

I am just have been really excited to see someone, who both knew FF and maxthon. someone like Bigthunder, and hope, he can provide me with more information, then i have found until now.

Posted 17 years ago #
GOTD
Member

I think that IE starts up really slowly, and takes up too much RAM; it has a higher chance of freezing up my system.

Posted 17 years ago #
Jucati
Member

Simply, AFAIK, IE doesn't "read" HTML the way it's supposed to. Some web designers have designed sites "for IE" when they're really just using broken code (ie, code that differs from standards) because IE won't display it properly otherwise.
This was the case for v6 and earlier; I haven't read much about IE since v7 came out.

And one other thing, it might just be me, though... when I design a graphic and an HTML element to be the exact same hex color, they always display perfectly the same in Firefox, but not always with IE. I'm not sure what the reason for this is but it always annoys me.

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

ender wrote:

what is the strongest point in your opinion, why a satisfied maxthon user should change to firefox.

If you are a satisfied maxthon user - you should stay what with what works for you. You change because you are unhappy, or because you find the product you are using is lacking in some way.

If you are just wanting to check the grass on the other side of the fence, why not install both browsers and spend some time using each? Nobody ever said you can only have one browser installed?

I believe like most people (given a little time to learn and accept the differences) your usage and preferences will lean towards the browser that you like the best.

Posted 17 years ago #
Archangel
Member

I don't mind your post at all ender.

The purpose of this thread is to tell the other side why they use the browser they use. I use IE7 but I do know alot of people here on GOTD swear by Firefox. As an individual, I just wanted to know why before installing it on my PC. Its not a pissing match for whats best because we all have our own opinions. I just wanted to here everyones including IE users too.

Personally I could care less what this or that magizine says about either. This thread is for us, the end user to tell it all.

Thanks and let er rip!!

Posted 17 years ago #
Reid
Member

Er, basically.. I'd prefer Opera over every other browser.

The reasons for it are quite several, actually. Opera is more customizable than Mozilla, even, with thousands of Widgets and a sidebar that keeps notes, widgets, transfers, history, and all links on one page organized brilliantly. It's one of the best browsers I've found so far, and I recommend it to anyone that I can find.

One of the greatest features of all is the 'Speed Dial', which is one of the most innovative features I've seen in any browser - even more, this feature is not available in IE, MF, Netscape, etc - only in Opera. What it does is when you open a new tab, or if you want, when you open the program, there are nine buttons under 'blank page' that are programmable with nine different websites. Once you click on one of the buttons, it takes you straight to it. It's faster than bookmarking, and you can still of course bookmark things as well. Most of you whilst reading this are probably thinking, "Pssh, I visit more sites than just nine daily," but it's actually kind of .. hard.. to fill up all nine spaces.

The wand feature is a bit lacking, but all it requires is clicking on the Wand Button or pressing CTRL+Enter, which autofills and logs into the page.. brilliant? Not as brilliant as Netscape's Log-In-As-Soon-As-Loaded feature, but still it's nice.

Opera is also the most space efficient browser of the four major (IE, MF, Netscape, Opera), topping out at around 4.5MB. It's one of the fastest browsers, as well as one of the most secure, incorporating various features that Mozilla FireFox only dreams of.

Plus, the two most major browsers, according to who all I talk to, are internet explorer and mozilla firefox, obviously, which means that over 99.9% of all malware/viruses are made for IE or MF specifically. Opera, being one of the least used browsers, has near no malware.

Here's what W3Schools said about opera's features:

"Opera has automatic Popup Blocking. This is fine for stopping annoying popup ads, but not so good for sites using popup windows in a good way.

Tabbed Browsing is a modern and time saving feature. It makes it possible to view many web pages in one browser window.

Transfers Panel is is Opera's download manager, with quick access to ongoing and recently finished downloads.

Opera's user interface is translated into multiple languages, and the language can be changed on the fly.

Opera has Customizable Toolbars, allowing the users to add and remove items as well as create new toolbars.

By choosing between different Skins, the users can change the look and feel of Opera.

Opera has direct access to Google's "related pages" feature, available from the "Navigation" menu.

Double clicking on a word on a page will pop up a menu that provides options related to the selected text, such as a Web, dictionary or encyclopedia search.

Opera provides Web authors with immediate access to Page Validation, thus encouraging good practices on the Web."

It also has RSS feeds, Google searching directly in the toolbar, hotkeys for everything,.. etc.

It's more customizable, safe, space-efficient, and fast than any browser I've tried. (And trust me, I've tried out every single browser. I've had my 'main browser' as Ie, Mozilla, Netscape, AOL, and Yahoo - I then found opera, spazzed, and used it for everything.)

Click here to view all of Opera's features/download it.

Posted 17 years ago #
Archangel
Member

Thanks for your input Reid. Us simple folk need simple feedback. Maybe the thread should have been just Browsers so all could be talked about. Glad you brought up Opera.

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

While a lot of the standard features that you like as being built into Opera - all of the equivalents are also available in Firefox.

Firefox has a different design philosophy - providing only a very basic browser. The extras that you want are available as extensions. To a new user this might be seen as an inconvenience - but many other users actually like the idea of "building your own browser" or "making it your own". I think of it similar to making your own pizza - everyone starts with a "base" - and what toppings you decide to put on it, is entirely up to you. Your browser only has the features you want to use.

(Also some people don't know where to start when adding features/extensions - and other people just don't have to time to go "window shopping" for the features they want to add).

There are some features available for free in Firefox, that I have chosen to replace with commercial/shareware products - mainly because the same tools can be used across all browsers and programs.

For Password management - I use "Sticky Password" - and for things like managing popup windows, blocking advertisements, and protecting against browser hijacks, I choose to use "Ad Muncher"

While Firefox, Opera, Internet Explorer and Maxthon all have support for things like managing passwords etc, it is much nicer to have a "global" tool that works across all platforms.

Posted 17 years ago #
alexiussg
Member

well, i prefer both firefox2 and IE7 but haven't got used to the Opera browser yet. I like Firefox because whatever i type, it checks for spelling mistakes automatically and underline it in red.

I like IE7 because it has the "Quick Tabs" button, where it shows a preview on all open tabs.
I've tried Opera once previously, don't really like the settings menu.

Also, I'm testing out Apple Safari (beta 3) for Windows.

Can't wait for firefox 3 to be fully released!

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim
If you like the "Quick Tabs" button in IE7 - don't feel that you have to "miss out" in Firefox.

Firefox has several different implementations of this feature - choose one that you like.
Also if you like the auto Spellcheck - you will probably like this too.
- Autocomplete Manager
Finally, the if the speed dial function sounds like it could be useful, there's
- Speed Dial
Posted 17 years ago #
Keilaron
Member

They all have their advantages. No, really, they do. The problem is that people don't realise it's mostly opinion-driven at the moment because each has some serious issues to be fixed before they can be considered superior.
I don't want this to turn into another pile of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt, or Disinformation) like the other thread that BuBBy pointed to turned out to be. Suffice it to say that if your browser of choice does what you need it do, good for you, be happy.
I strongly suggest that such threads be locked because most people can't offer True Facts and only pass off semi-facts or "I think it was first"-type information and really doesn't matter (e.g., Microsoft didn't steal tabs from FF, esp. as FF wasn't the first tabbed browser; At the same time, does that even matter?).

With that said... the best way to compare said browsers would be to keep a list of what base functions each browser has. Extensions and add-ons need not apply as (unless I'm mistaken) most common browsers now can be easily extended. Also, please keep speed claims off here - Your Mileage WILL Vary.

Posted 17 years ago #
Archangel
Member

Good post guys. I started this thread to actually hear what people thought about there browsers. We all know how to do the various searches (Google,Yahoo ect.) and read but they don't reflect on the actual end user. I value what everyone thinks and really want to know.

I like IE7 but I see so many using FF (and now some of the other browsers too) and wanted to know there reasons for using what they use. (No c/p's we can all do that) If FF or any other can make my web experience better then thats the way I want to go.

Thanks for all the input thus far and keep it coming. Who knows, there may be some conversions that will help us all out.

Posted 17 years ago #
Reid
Member

Er, sorry about the whole link mixup. Apparently HTML is edited entirely before posted.. Generally the anchor tag, which has a hypertext reference, takes you straight to the link you put, instead of the whole.. take-me-to-another-topic.

http://www.opera.com

That's the download link for Opera.

I didn't know there was a speeddial for Firefox, but even beyond that, why not just use a browser that is 1/4 the size, twice as fast to open, and already has it built in? :P

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

why not just use a browser that is 1/4 the size, twice as fast to open

And which one would that be?

Installer downloads -

Opera_9.22_Eng_Setup.exe 4,803 KB
Firefox Setup 2.0.0.6.exe 5,878 KB
IE7-WindowsXP-X86-enu.exe 15,505 KB

On my PC both Firefox and Opera open in under 2 seconds (give or take half a second - I am still trying to decide how to spend that extra time productively).

and already has it built in?

A more flexible design would be making "speed dial" a Widget style addon in Opera. Users could decide to not install it if they choose, or install one of the alternative replacements (available from a library of user developed features).

Savvy users want the ability to configure their browser features to fit their own needs and requirements. Gone are the days of "one size fits all".

Posted 17 years ago #
Keilaron
Member

Generally the anchor tag, which has a hypertext reference, takes you straight to the link you put, instead of the whole.. take-me-to-another-topic.

That's what happens when you get lazy and leave out the http://. It's important! It tells the browser you're starting the link from scratch, and not using a relative link. Since dots are valid in a relative link, the browser can't automatically know you meant another site.

Gone are the days of "one size fits all".

IMO, that went a long, long time ago - sadly, there were no browsers (at the time) that were really able to customize that much. I had to make do with customizing other programs (like Miranda). ;>

Anyway, my major reason for using FF is just that - the customization ability. Because of all the hype (yes, there's quite a bit of hype) surrounding FF, there's plenty of add-ons available. I currently have 28 installed (incl. two dictionaries)! If it were the other way around, I'd likely be using IE at the moment (or Opera, or ... you get the idea). Some people are porting add-ons to IE (maybe Opera, but I haven't looked at it much - my first encounter with it was disastrous), so I might actually switch sometime in the future.

Oh, and I meant to do this earlier...

Ultimately though, it's just a preference. For the very average user (who doesn't care about add-ons or the way it looks, for example) as long as the program works/does what it says it will, there's no reason to not use what the computer comes with.

QFT.

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

Ultimately though, it's just a preference. For the very average user (who doesn't care about add-ons or the way it looks, for example) as long as the program works/does what it says it will...

and continues to satisfy the user requirements (including being able to adapt to meet new requirements)

there's no reason to not use what the computer comes with.

Posted 17 years ago #
Reid
Member

Ah, yes... I shouldn't be lazy anymore. Sorry, I run a forum and I'm used to BB Code. Maybe I should get out of that habit..

And, by "1/4 of the size", I meant when they're fully installed.

If I remember correctly, Mozilla Firefox is around 20-25mb, Netscape is around 30mb, and Opera is about 6mb.

Of course, I get what you're saying. I like building my browsers from the ground up too.

I guess it's just like everyone has said before - it's all a matter of preference.

Posted 17 years ago #
Keilaron
Member

It's unfortunate that BBCode works that way. I was unable to post links that had square brackets in them in my own gallery...

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

In BBCode - you would need to do 'URL Encoding' to put square brackets into a URL
http://www.tcpipguide.com/free/t_URLGeneralSyntax-4.htm

Posted 17 years ago #
Keilaron
Member

Oy, I feel stupid. I had been attempting to do character entities instead. Thanks for reminding me. (To others: If you use Firefox, the leetkey extension will help you do this!)

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

Don't worry I had a "Doh!" forehead slapping moment when this occurred to me back then also.

Posted 17 years ago #

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