GOTD: Please clarify policy on adware/spyware

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GOTD: Please clarify policy on adware/spyware

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Started 17 years ago by ChrisW
Latest reply from BuBBy

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Jucati
Member

I think this topic is ending up just splitting hairs and otherwise arguing semantics...

Regardless of what is meant by "100% Clean", any company which shrugs and blames the users for being human isn't one I'd like to deal with, and as such it saddens me that some people are taking this stance (still no word from the admin team!). There's a difference between a user not expecting a site that says "100% clean" to deliver spyware, and a total moron who sues McD's for their coffee being too hot after spilling it on themselves.

Posted 17 years ago #
alexiussg
Member

anyway, just be careful when installing softwares onto your computer. it's better to be safe than sorry for not reading the user licenses before installing.

case closed.

Posted 17 years ago #
Archangel
Member

Check out the front page again. LOL

This is off topic but you do fantastic sketches Jucati. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Keep up the good work because most of us don't have your ablity.

Posted 17 years ago #
FABScott
Member

Jesus wept - you people are unbelievable!
If you download almost any program these days, you get the option to also accept a toolbar or something similar. And in any case, most of the toolbars are not really spyware in the malware sense. [there are some that are of course]
You can't blame other people if YOU accept and download something - read what you are doing.
Arghhhhhhh!!!!!

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

FABScott, you are not getting the point
most people here have anti virus, and are able to "read"
the point is that it is contradicting its 100% free of spyware,virus.....
what is the point if legally free software has spyware?
why not just download warez?

There are A LOT of free sites, but some sites require you install a toolbar or program that acts like spyware, GOTD IS NOT ONE OF THEM (yet)
the main difference is that one is safe and legally free, while one is free, but not safe
(in case of warez, it would be not safe or legal)
GOTD used to be both safe and legal, now ......
I'm sure some people don't think that it is safe anymore

Posted 17 years ago #
alexiussg
Member

it's just once in a blue moon that a software comes with add-ons software. i'm sure they won't do it again..

Posted 17 years ago #
Archangel
Member

The only software that I have seen in along time that comes with a toolbar is those that would cost you, but instead a company compensates them by allowing a toolbar to be inserted.

kevinyunlai, he isn't missing the point, he's telling everybody how good he is. LOL The way I take your post FABScott, your a "Master" downloader and have much experience in the "Art of Installing". rotflmao

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

lol
I agree with you Archangel
I'm not a "master" down loader so I would not know :)

Posted 17 years ago #
FABScott
Member

You don't need any particularly special skills to uncheck a box!

Or maybe YOU do. lmao.

Posted 17 years ago #
ChrisW
Member

No, unchecking a box doesn't take any skill. And apparently being a smart-a$$ doesn't take much skill either.

The point has nothing to do with the checking and unchecking; it has to do with knowing what to uncheck. It's not like the installer says:

I'd like to drop something on your system that has nothing to do with the software you're installing, but may slow down your system, possibly interfere with the operation of other softwareand maybe even expose your personal data to outsiders -- but we won't tell you which. So you might as well just take a wild guess at which things you need and which you don't.

Saying that it's optional doesn't help if the users don't know how to differentiate, because they don't know what the consequences might be.

So that gets us back to the point.

GOTD needs to let us know if their site is safe to recommend to, say, my mother. I'm not willing to deal with the support headaches of malware, so if they can't guarantee the malware-free experience that their little green image at least implies, then I can't send people here with a clear conscience.

How about it, GOTD. You're entitled to run your business the way you want, but you've got to make some kind of decision. Get off the fence. You can't keep users sucked in just by being ambiguous; sooner or later it leads -- as we saw last week -- to a bigger firestorm.

Posted 17 years ago #
Archangel
Member

You couldn't make it any clearer ChrisW. No one expected anything else. We should go thru the installation step by step but who would have thought about the other "goodies" were included in it.

Read the complaints again FABScott. Try looking at it from their point of view.

Posted 17 years ago #
eaLazerBeam
Member

Come on, people - this argument is crazy! If you didn't have the time to read the agreement and uncheck the box then it's your own fault...

Anyway, 100% Adware and Spyware Free generally means the software will not install any hidden adware or spyware that you can't choose not to install.

The point is, even if you purchase the software, the toolbar(s) will be there, so we can't blame GAOTD...

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

First,
I don't think of this as an argument
I think of this a topic/place for people to "get" together and share ideas
second,
I really doubt that a lot of computers got "damage" because of this
the point is that
100% SAFE DOWNLOAD
if it spy ware is included, it is not "safe", that is THE POINT, not that we have a CHOICE

if a program claimed to be 100% safe, but was not, then there is no point "arguing"

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

also,
eaLazerBeam,
you are right that we should not blame GOTD for this
I agree
what we should do however, is "blame" for their "fixing" process
what are the views of GOTD? what steps are they taking?

Posted 17 years ago #
Hempman
Member

There is a difference between a "toolbar" like Google and stuff intentionally meant to mess with a system and/or steal private stuff. There is a difference when a "toolbar" like Dealio and SNAP are specifically seen by the AV/AntiSpyware industry as DANGEROUS.

We are not talking "BLAME" here, we are talking about a lack of responsibility on the part of GOTD in actually following thier own policy to NOT include SPYWARE 100%.

Hiding behind the nonsense that my 80 yo father could install it safely by knowing to not let them add that DANGEROUS SPYWARE to his computer is ridiculous.

I have to make two notes. One, despite closing another version of this very discussion, the controversy rages on, and has simply moved to a different topic.

Two, I note that as I write this with a mere 4 hours left on the download of today on the main site, there are only 31 comments, and a total of 167 votes. Clearly, the visitors are awaiting a cogent response from the GOTD admins.

How can anyone trust GOTD if they are to allow a fiasco like false advertising of the product offered, and the inclusion of known spyware in obvious violation of thier 100% SPYWARE FREE policy?

I predict that this will continue until GOTD either folds or corrects thier error in not speaking to this problem.

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

Lets wait and see what happens.....

Posted 17 years ago #
playboy85
Member

Concerning the Snap Tool Bar, it is considered Spyware, being given a risk level of 3 out of 5. Risk level 3 means the following MIGHT be true for the spyware:

# Medium (3 Rating): these infections may cause inconvenience and may display misleading information. Typical characteristics could include:

* Presenting the user with a misleading or incomplete End User License Agreement (EULA) during installation
* Displaying aggressive advertising in multiple pop-up windows
* Pretending to uninstall

It is considered a threat. To maintain their reputation of 100% Spyware Free, GOTD needs to make sure the software they are offering is just that, 100% free of potentially dangerous spyware. SNAP toolbar is potentially dangerous.

It makes one wonder if GOTD actually checks the software they are offering. If so, and they still allowed this spyware then I have to wonder about the future of GOTD. Are they so cash strapped they are going to resort to offering software with spyware just to make a few dollars?

Anyone can do a search for Snap Toolbar and see how dangerous this program is. It is a shame that GOTD has disregarded their own "100% spyware free" and has infected perhaps thousands of users.

It's your reputation GOTD. I dont mind passing the word on to others that GOTD gives out spyware like it was candy on Halloween and to avoid this place.

GOTD's lack of explaination on this issue tell the real story.

I think I will write about this issue on my blog sometime this week.

Posted 17 years ago #
kalelin38
Member

I'm thinking of writing it in my blog on myspace. I took down my link to GOTD because of their lack of response to this issue.

GOTD you are losing face, you better answer soon before the word spreads to far.

Posted 17 years ago #
playboy85
Member

What's next GOTD, 007 Keylogger? Since you have taken a liking to infecting your users with spyware, how about a free spyware checker?

Posted 17 years ago #
Jucati
Member

Free spyware checker/cleaner - AdAware http://www.lavasoftusa.com/

I wouldn't even ask for their Plus/Pro versions just because the Free version does 99% of what it needs to do anyway.

Posted 17 years ago #
FABScott
Member

playboy85 & kalelin38
Please don't talk rubbish.
Do you think tracking cookies are "spyware" too?

Posted 17 years ago #
kalelin38
Member

FABScott

I use to run a community computer lab which gives me a lot a experience with the why some people think when they uses computers. There are a lot of people that would automatically install those items without a second thought not realizing that they had install something bad. A lot of people think automatically it if comes as an option it must be safe. Then you get those people that rush thought the install using all the defaults like most software install. And there are many other kind of users out there. I would volunteer a lot of times to go to these peoples houses and fix there computer and a lot of times it was spyware/adware related problems.

With that said, I can't honestly support a website that tell users all the software you download is 100% safe. Clicking a box to not install doesn't mean it's 100% safe it means it's a scam the the developer's of the software are using to exploit the type of people I use to deal with daily.

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

tracking cookies are not spy ware,
but information could be not safe
and....
I believe that some spy ware scanners do include tracking cookies as "spy ware"
BUT
the MAIN POINT of THIS topic
IS
1. It is not 100% safe if a "program" included in the download is not safe
2. GOTD has not been doing anything about this (as far as visitors know)
3. Just because some people know the difference about tracking cookies and spy ware, safe and unsafe programs, virus and spy ware, it does not mean everyone does
Don't forget that some people who come to this site are not even familiar with the basices of computers
my parents don't know the difference between virus, spy ware, trojon....

Posted 17 years ago #
jeremiah
Member

FABScott,
You're absolutely correct. Everyone needs to be careful with downloaded software. But so what? There were several issues with that giveaway (not as advertised, crippled software, etc.). It's still very clear that GOTD's policy is to not include ANY adware/spyware in the giveaways.
If Dealio or Snap can be considered adware or spyware, then GOTD should not have included them. Period.
And by the way, tracking cookies ARE considered to be potentially harmful by a lot of people. Not because of what they do, but because the information they collect can be easily exploited.

Posted 17 years ago #
FABScott
Member

[quote = jeremiah] And by the way, tracking cookies ARE considered to be potentially harmful by a lot of people. Not because of what they do, but because the information they collect can be easily exploited.[/quote]
True; they are considered potentially harmful though in the majority of cases they are harmless.
There again anything produced by Microsoft [for example] has been proved to be easily exploited in the past. So my advice is that we should take extra precautions whether we download from GAOD or not. I'm not trying to be a smartarse but it isn't so difficult for anyone to do.

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

FABScott
you have a very good point
I agree with your view
sorry if I sounded mean
but the problem is that even thought every one needs to be careful with downloading software, "we" would think that "we" would not have to be with GOTD because it is legal and 100% safe

Posted 17 years ago #
jeremiah
Member

FABScott,
Again, you're right. And I don't think you're being a smartass. I personally don't understand how anyone could recommend ANY download site to someone who's not at least a little familiar with crapware protection. I also am not that worried about GOTD's giveaways. And people really should use caution no matter what they're downloading.
BUT, Dealio and Snap were not part of the advertised giveaway. From what I understand they are both at least suspect. Therefore they shouldn't have been included at all. Again, it's GOTD's own policy. I'm not blaming GOTD for possible damage to other people's computers. I don't think GOTD will suddenly lose all their visitors over this. And I don't think this warrants a class action law suit (that still makes me chuckle). I just think they should back up what they clearly advertise.

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

I should add here that Morpheus add the toolbars to all of their downloads. This wasn't something that GOTD added - or that GOTD failed to remove. They do not change the setup programs that the developers provide.

Instead, a preferred (in my opinion) course of action would be to refuse the giveaway from Morpheus until Morpheus removed the toolbars from the setup. While I don't disagree with peoples right to express their disapproval or disappointment in the inclusion of the toolbars in a GOTD giveaway - I think the point has been made, and I'd like to move on.

I'm sure the site owners are aware of how people feel - and the fact that there has been no statement made, clearly isn't going to change just because people continue to retread the same ground talking about it on, and on and on.

Nobody is defending the inclusion of the toolbars, and everyone agrees it is a bad thing (except for the occasional nobhead who feels that reading a 10 page legal agreement and license acceptance must be standard practice before someones mum installs a new program - like that is going to make any sense or actually happen), this discussion hasn't really introduced any new issues or progressed in the past 48 hours.

I think the GOTD team know (now) it was a bad thing - they probably didn't "join the dots" and realise it would be such a big issue at the time - now they know. Really I'm prepared to write this off to a bad experience and just hope it doesn't happen again (please... at least for the sake of us moderators... this is just one big headache).

Posted 17 years ago #
FABScott
Member

I personally don't, [and nobody I know] reads EULAs these days but that doesn't mean someone who advises others to do so is a nobhead[sic] If that un-moderator like dig was aimed at me, forget it, I am not suggesting anyone should either.

For anyone wishing to check an EULA without the bother of reading it, may I recommend the EULAlyzer offered free from the excellent javacool people.

http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/eulalyzer.html

Also consider their free Spywareblaster available at the same site.

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

I was not saying that anybody who advises people to read EULAs is a "nobhead" - I was and still do maintain that anybody with the expectation that everyone should read them - and if you don't read them (or overlook a checkbox) then you deserve everything you get. In effect, "everybody can read, how hard is it".

Malware and parasite type software and toolbars that hide behind a EULA and user acceptance - doesn't make the software "OK". I've seen too many EULAs with clauses like "we can change the terms at any stage, and will post the details of any changes on our webpage." - of course it's in legalese and not English my mother would understand.

Many users don't know that the toolbar software is bad or good. If they trust the software it arrives with, they implicitly (but wrongly) trust the "extras". Anyone who looks down their nose and blames computer users who are less net-savy than themselves as ignorant or "serves them right" does nothing for their own credibility or understanding towards other people.

My "un-moderator" like dig was just a generalisation, mentioning that there are ignorant people out there who believe that they are much "smarter" than other users because they "just know" what is "bad software" and what is "good software".

I didn't mention any names or specific examples. To some people such a comment might just "ring true" and pause for thought. I'm sure those people can see for themselves, that their ability to show some understanding towards less experienced users probably needs a little work.

It seems you are the only person to have come forward to distance yourself from displaying such a viewpoint. Good to see.

Posted 17 years ago #

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