I use oth IE AND Fire fox, do most of you use dual browsers? Some people just hate IE with a passion.
IE/FF?
(47 posts) (13 voices)-
Both browsers have their benefits.
IE7:
Aimed at the user who just wants "a browser" - isn't interested in tweaking, extra features and customisation. Just uses whatever is there because it is "easier" and less hassle. Happy for a browser that just "does the job". Need to be aware of ActiveX security issues (recommend "spywareblaster"). The most widely used & installed browser (ie. comes with Windows).Recommended addon for IE7 users: http://www.ie7pro.com/
Firefox:
Aimed at the power user or users who want to fully customise their browser. Also popular at Microsoft/IE haters (Firefox is better because it is not IE). Amazing selection of 3rd party addons, features and customisations. Considered "more secure" than IE as it doesn't have support for ActiveX (by default). Literally anything can be changed - if you are willing to spend the time to look.Firefox has always had memory leak issues - the scale of which seems to vary from user to user. Typically not a show stopper though. Many of the experienced problems are caused by the user downloaded third party extensions themselves. Excellent support for automatic updates to extensions is available (via another extension of course).
FF is my preferred (but not exclusive) browser.
Posted 17 years ago # -
LOL... yeah I forgot about them. (And Safari for the Mac)
There are a few people still using Opera. It's supposed to be OK - and some people like it.
A lot of add on third party software has a different set of hoops to jump through when trying to talk to Opera - often they just don't bother.
Here are some stats over the past few years. Interesting, but normally these stats are done on page hits rather than units installed. Also "most popular" doesn't always translate into "best product" (whatever that is). Best to see the shift between products over the years, though.
Posted 17 years ago # -
I have been a die-hard Firefox user from its inception, but memory leaks have lessened my enthusiasm. IE and all things Microsoft are exercises in vocabulary enhancement.
I've made the switch to the highly-customizable Opera browser, with an occasional foray on the super-fast, open-source K-meleon browser.
Posted 17 years ago # -
BigHarry: Key Scrambler, a Firefox security add-on, encrypts every keystroke BEFORE it is sent to the internet. It will even beat keyloggers! You can also try the Password Hasher add-on.
Key Scrambler has a version for IE, including 32-bit Vista, on their home page:
http://www.qfxsoftware.com/Posted 17 years ago # -
pauloparra
MemberI have used IE FF and Flock and the best for me is undoubtedly Flock. FF tends to get bloated with extensions, not that it is bad, but for example, right now it is using 14% of my cpu and I am not even using it. I have to save all the links I have there and kill it. Flock is also mozilla based and has never given me a problem. Its got plenty of addon's to satisfy every need, but they tend to be cleaner and better written.
This, of course IMHO.-Mario
Posted 17 years ago # -
Harry, the easiest way to check for yourself would probably be to download a copy of a free keylogger and test against that. You can probably find one at C|net or Source Forge. Remember these important points before you test:
1. Turn off system restore before installation of the keylogger; you can turn it back on after the test is complete and the keylogger removed.
2. Your anti-virus will have a ring-tailed fit when you install the keylogger. You will have to turn off the antivirus program or 'approve' the keylogger manually to get a valid test. Be sure to remove the 'approval' from your anti-virus after the test.Also, Firefox recently experienced some security issues so it is wise to install a another security add-on called 'No Script.' It's one more layer of protection between you and the bad guys.
Posted 17 years ago # -
Swan
MemberHi Big Harry,
I use "remember my passwords' with Firefox and am a bit uneasy as to whether this is wise?
I'm with you there.
I LOVE Firefox and it's my primary browser. However, I still prefer to use an external (to browser) program to save and encrypt my passwords. It's called Roboform and while it isn't free, it really is the best one on the net. You can go to all the regular software download sites, find the Roboform link and read what other people have to say.
Roboform really behaves well, is easily configurable, has an easy interface, never crashes and integrates nicely with Firefox and other browsers.
That's my 3 cents and I hope it helps you! ;)
~ SwanPosted 17 years ago # -
BillW50
MemberI know this might come as a great shock to many, but FireFox also has its share of security holes as well. Nothing is perfect. Thus why I let the experts do their thing and use a good firewall, anti-virus and spyware checker. And just use whatever browser you like to use. And I prefer Maxthon myself. As it has more features than you can shake a stick at. Plus it can use either the Triton (IE) or Gecko (Firefox) engines as well. ;)
Posted 17 years ago # -
Swan
MemberHi crud3w4re,
I use both IE AND Fire fox, do most of you use dual browsers? Some people just hate IE with a passion.
By now you know that I use Firefox, but I also use Opera as my backup browser. Like many today, I won't touch IE or Outlook because of its ongoing security issues.
I was surprised to read that Firefox has memory leaks, as I've been using it almost since its inception and haven't noticed anything of importance and I'm pretty much a power user. ;)
Part of what I do is web design and I do religiously make sure that everything orients property in IE - but I also check with Opera and Netscape too.
Hope that answers your question! ;)
~ SwanPosted 17 years ago # -
On the topic of Firefox Memory Leaks:
Firefox addon - Leak Monitor 0.3.6 24-Dec-2006mozillazine - Reducing memory usage - firefox Last Edit 18-Apr-2007
Lifehacker.com - Cut down on firefox memory hogging 21-Apr-2007
How to fix the Firefox memory leak (Firefox hack) « //engtech 2-Dec-2006
Posted 17 years ago # -
BillW50, thank you for the info about the Maxthon browser. I just downloaded the beta version, customized the skin and took it for a test drive. It's fast! It's loaded! I like it!
Now ... if it uses the Gecko engine .. is it going to have the same memory leaks that plague Firefox?
Posted 17 years ago # -
Gecko is the layout/rendering engine - most of the memory leaks that I have read about seem to originate around user interface features and third party extensions. I cannot say for sure but Gecko is probably reasonably good when it comes to being memory leak free (as could reasonably be expected). Using the Gecko engine is already very popular in other browsers, as you know.
(Despite all this talk about memory leaks etc - firefox is still my first choice/preference when it comes to a web browser. Using anything else, I can't help but notice how much I take for granted, when features I swear by (and at) just aren't supported in other products).
Posted 17 years ago # -
Firefox truly spoiled me,too. Since its inception, I've been an avid fan although it took time to learn that some extensions did not play well with others. I have a widget that identifies memory leaks when they occur but it doesn't fix anything .. just adds to the frustration, you might say. It seems no matter what extensions I run on Firefox, that memory leak detector activates. Still, it's better than IE7 .. tabbed browsing is about the only thing I like about that version (the interface is the pits).
Opera's speed dial function is fast becoming a favorite, and I like its customization options, but the add-ons I need eat up real estate.
K-meleon and SeaMonkey browsers are fast, because they stay loaded in memory. They're stripped-down, utilitarian in appearance .. too bad, because I like something easy on the eyes. I had been using one of them as the default browser, simply because they load so quickly; that's handy when working with an application that briefly needs internet access to finish my task (like some genealogy). Sigh..as with all good things, there is always a catch: I encountered several sites will not recognize either of those browsers.
Playing with the Maxthon browser for the last 24 hours has really been fun, and an eye opener as to what one can do with a browser. It is not as awkward as Opera to learn and has even more widgets and goodies available. It's faster, too, I think. All in all, I am leaning more to Maxthon than Firefox .. at least it hasn't set off that cussed memory leak detector!
Posted 17 years ago # -
The Leak Monitor would be really great if it was obvious at telling you exactly which bit failed (it seems some extensions only fall over when they have the rug yanked out from under their feet by other extensions). Then a nice button to "report this error to the developer of the leaking extension" would be absolutely magic... sadly it's easier said than done.
Posted 17 years ago # -
To be completely honest (calling a spade a spade) the real reason why most users use internet explorer - and all the other browsers trail behind - is because users are basically not interested in doing anything beyond what is absolutely necessary to use the internet.
Internet Explorer comes with Windows. Users ask, "what do I need another browser for, I already have one". They are not interested in learning something different, because it's just too difficult.
In terms of those I would risk calling "web professionals" many are extremely vocal about the shortcomings of Internet Explorer. (They only support it because they have to).
Ultimately in terms of sheer popularity it is really just a two horse race between Internet Explorer and Firefox (Opera usually protests that they are up there also - but the statistics over time do not support this claim).
Making a statement that Firefox is the slowest is a highly subjective comment - Under certain configurations any software can be made to run slowly. Also tuning the browser could be described as an artform, and the actual steps required would vary depending on how Firefox was configured (apart from a default install - no two installs of firefox are identical).
At the end of the day - the best browser is a personal choice and as is demonstrated by Internet Explorer, popularity is no indicator of technical merit. :P
Posted 17 years ago # -
BillW50
MemberFor starters, I don't know any shortcomings with Internet Explorer. And I have no idea where people get such an idea. I believe they must be preconceived. As I can't find any hard evidence for it. All one has to do is to lock down IE is by setting security slider on high. Which is probably why most people use Internet Explorer anyway. It also has nothing to do with not knowing better. Because I know better and I disagree. So that claim can't be true.
One of the claims by a great number of FireFox users is that FireFox is secure. That is not even close to the truth! FireFox also has its share of security holes with it. And this has been proven time and time again. And IMHO, people who makes this claim is no better than conmen actually.
Now you question whether FireFox is slow or not? Well I have installed FireFox on a number of different computers and the results are always the same. And what *really* brings FireFox to a crawl is running on low physical memory systems. For example, on Celeron 400MHZ with just 192MB running either Windows 98SE or Windows 2000, FireFox can take minutes to refresh a screen. Nobody can tell me that FireFox isn't slow. It just isn't true.
The real truth is that FireFox is a bloated pig (like most open source software) filled with memory leaks all over the place. Few people ever speak about this truth. I know that is so sad as well. As IMHO, it is dead wrong to misled people by using FUD (fear, uncertainty, and deception).
Now advanced users who claim that FireFox is the way to go is dead wrong IMHO. If you want a power user browser, you can't beat Maxthon IMHO! As it has everything a power user needs. And it makes FireFox looking as featureless as IE. Plus it can use either the Triton (the engine IE uses) and/or the Gecko (what FireFox uses) engines. The only thing that is missing is the Opera engine (which doesn't have a fancy name for it). ;)
Posted 17 years ago # -
In response (with supporting references) to some of the opinions expressed and claims made by BillW50.
I don't know any shortcomings with Internet Explorer. And I have no idea where people get such an idea. I believe they must be preconceived. As I can't find any hard evidence for it.
Why you should dump Internet Explorer.
... No, Internet Explorer did not handle it properly (read site using Internet Explorer...)
Internet Explorer 7 has some inherent shortcomings that will keep it from being the browser of choice
I'm not going to comment on the shortcomings of the latest IE7 beta when it comes to standards...All one has to do is to lock down IE is by setting security slider on high. Which is probably why most people use Internet Explorer anyway.
Make Internet Explorer Safer
Make Internet Explorer 7 Safer- Configure the Security Settings
Internet Explorer Unsafe for 284 Days in 2006
"Most" people do not even know about these settings or how to use them. Further more simply setting security to "high" pretty much just disables features that most typical users want - like downloading content. Many otherwise "safe" sites are "broken" by just setting all security to "high". Which is probably why most people who use Internet Explorer don't just "set the security slider on high".It also has nothing to do with not knowing better. Because I know better and I disagree. So that claim can't be true.
Yes, clearly you do know better (Considering your preferred browser is not IE) - but I was referring to the population of Internet Explorer users in General. Yesterday for example - I overheard a conversation between two users who "know better" - discussing who they were using as an Internet Service Provider (who they were "going with"). The response came back - "I'm used to be with Google but now I'm with Yahoo". Their concept of who was providing their internet service (when they "ran the internet" by clicking on "the internet icon") was who came up on their "start page". This is a lot more "typical" of end user "knowledge" than you obviously realize. The vocal minority you "hear about the most" aren't in this group - Most internet users don't have a voice because they have not discovered posting to forums, or newsgroups, IRC or writing blogs.
For the users like this, who use Internet Explorer - because it's what they get with windows, and IE is "the internet" - Firefox isn't even on their radar screens.
Why I don't recommend Firefox v0.9 (Sept 2004) - Or why many "typical" users use Internet Explorer.
One of the claims by a great number of Firefox users is that Firefox is secure. That is not even close to the truth! Firefox also has its share of security holes with it. And this has been proven time and time again. And IMHO, people who makes this claim is no better than conmen actually.
Always best to refer back to the facts when making vague claims like this...
Firefox 2.x - Security Advisories 3 of 6 still unpatched. (Worst rated=Less Critical)
Internet Explorer 7.x - Security Advisories 7 of 9 still unpatched. (Worst rated=Moderately Critical)Now you question whether FireFox is slow or not? Well I have installed FireFox on a number of different computers and the results are always the same. And what *really* brings FireFox to a crawl is running on low physical memory systems. For example, on Celeron 400MHZ with just 192MB running either Windows 98SE or Windows 2000, FireFox can take minutes to refresh a screen. Nobody can tell me that FireFox isn't slow. It just isn't true.
If you configured Firefox to run in 192MB of memory - I suspect the results would've been different. Most Firefox users tend to be attracted to the additional power and extendability of the browser. Most wouldn't have the expectations to get Formula 1 performance and features from a ride on lawnmower running on kerosene. It is probably taking "minutes to refresh a screen" because the browser memory settings haven't been configured, and it is paging data back to your hard disk. Also if you are running other apps at the same time - 192MB on a Windows 2000 pc doesn't leave a lot spare for application use. You could turn off some advanced features to free up memory in this case and Firefox performance would improve significantly I expect. Is it fair to generalize that Microsoft Word is a "slow application" because Notepad is faster?
Again - it's always best to refer to facts and figures when making performance claims. (note not just the rankings - but just how close most browsers are - in seconds. There isn't really a HUGE difference)
Opera seems to be the fastest browser for Windows. Firefox is not faster than Internet Explorer, except for scripting, but for standards support, security and features, Firefox is a better choice.The real truth is that FireFox is a bloated pig (like most open source software) filled with memory leaks all over the place. Few people ever speak about this truth.
Few people ever speak about it? You aren't serious, are you?
http://vistarewired.com/2007/04/18/how-to-really-reduce-the-memory-usage-in-firefox/
About the Firefox "memory leak"
Reducing memory usage (Firefox)It's no secret - It's not because "Firefox is a bloated pig (like most open source software)" (oh boy there goes any tech credibility you might've had).
The reasons for the memory use are quite well documented now - and there are several ways to configure the browsers memory use to best suit the conditions it is running in. You just have to change the settings yourself (it's your choice). The known leak issues in 1.0 and 1.5 have apparently been fixed in 2.0. Do some research (it seems every second Firefox user is talking about it).
http://www.google.com.au/search?q=firefox+2+fix+memory+leakhttp://scobleizer.com/2006/10/21/the-great-firefox-2-vs-ie-7-memory-test/
IE7 vs Firefox 2: The memory usage showdownThe memory leak in Firefox can be reduced by tuning how tab histories are handled - an explanation of why some people prefer to wear a small leak for the improved functionality:
here's where IE7 falls down. For example, there should be some way to re-create a previous browsing session. Let's say Windows or your browser has crashed. Now, Microsoft might not like to admit that this ever happens, but in the world that I live in, it happens all the time. You'd like to reopen IE, and re-create the browser session you had before the crash, with all the sites opened in their own tabs. There's no way to do this in IE7. In addition, what if you accidentally close a tab and then realize that you didn't mean to close it? Wouldn't it be nice to reopen that tab to the page where you were? You can't do it in IE7.
All these tabbed features, and more, are available in Firefox 1.5 via extensions. And the ability to restore previous browsing sessions after a crash and reopen accidentally closed browser tabs is built into Firefox 2.0, now in Release Candidate 3 (RC3) code. But those capabilities aren't built into IE7, and given that there's not likely to be a flourishing IE7 add-on community any time soon.Computerworld article - so not only can you re-open a closed tab, but you will also still have the tab history with it - so for example you can reopen a closed tab - then for that tab then go back to the third previous page before it was closed. Of course you can reduce the memory assigned to this feature or turn it off altogether. You don't get the feature or the choice in IE7.
I know that is so sad as well. As IMHO, it is dead wrong to misled people by using FUD (fear, uncertainty, and deception).
ahem... Fear, uncertainty and doubt. Yes it is wrong to mislead people. (By the way the term FUD is synonymous with Microsoft and IBM over OS/2 and Microsoft and Netscape over IE and Navigator) - there is a lot less FUD these days with internet browsers because experienced users have greater access to information and experience with the platforms. (It is very hard to hide behind FUD when facts are available - assuming people are willing to do some reading and private testing).http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt
http://www.cavcomp.demon.co.uk/halloween/fuddef.htmlNow advanced users who claim that FireFox is the way to go is dead wrong IMHO. If you want a power user browser, you can't beat Maxthon IMHO! As it has everything a power user needs. And it makes FireFox looking as featureless as IE.
All personal opinion and assumptions. (Note this thread is looking specifically at the merits of Internet Explorer and Firefox).I agree that Internet Explorer could be currently considered to only offer the features considered "essential" in any basic browser. For many users - Internet Explorer quite possibly meets their basic needs. Beyond these basics your choices in additional features to match your exact requirements are all but non-existent (with the possible exception of a handful of third party IE plugins/addons/extensions/toolbars).
But if taken to the task of Firefox or Maxthon being able to extend and customize the featureset to meet the needs of any "power user" - I would appreciate having someone demonstrate how Maxthon can meet the needs of power users (which I will take to mean users who have requirements considerably exceeding those of "basic use") in a manner which Firefox is unable to match.
I scanned down the Maxthon feature page and the Maxthon Resource
Centre to see what Firefox users might be missing out on - and I'm thinking that the list must be incomplete.There is nothing there that is not already done by default, or in some cases (where the feature might not be wanted by the majority) the feature can be easily added through a separate free extension (this in itself is an absolute "goldmine" feature - where users can customize and configure the browser featureset exactly to their specific requirements).
If wanting to go beyond this and start looking at what is available in the Firefox extension library which grows and is updated every day, or using scripted features such as GreaseMonkey - the Maxthon comparison for power users starts to look bleak for those who tweak. (Maxthon Resource Center is a good start, but certainly nowhere near the breadth of options available in Firefox Extensions).
If you don't like the way a particular feature in Firefox works? You can change it, or replace it or add to it. If you are really keen (and this is "power user" to the extreme) - you have the source code to do what you want to the browser. If you really think that Firefox looks "featureless" - you're wearing somebody else's glasses.
I'm not saying Maxthon is a bad browser. It's not. Many people are satisfied with what it can offer. But to try to make it sound more impressive by claiming that it better meets the needs of power users because FireFox lacks in features, does nothing other than make you look foolish. (Or demonstrate that a "power user" should know a little more about both products before making crazy comparisons and crazier conclusions).
Plus it can use either the Triton (the engine IE uses) and/or the Gecko (what FireFox uses) engines.
This is true. Maxthon can use EITHER Triton or Gecko. Firefox can use BOTH. To change between engines on Maxthon, requires the browser to be closed and restarted - all pages will be rendered using the selected layout engine. If you want to go back to the other engine, you need to again restart your browser. With Maxthon it is all or nothing. Firefox can jump between engines, for a single tab or all tabs with just a mouse click - requires no browser restart and both engines can be used at the same time - swapping back and forth as required without affecting any other pages that you might have open at the time.After doing some reading - The Maxthon team have never claimed that the Gecko engine support is anything other than experimental in version 1.x. It is not fully functional. Further if you decide to use the Gecko engine - all of the addons you may have installed via the Maxthon Resource Center are disabled. In firefox, only the affected tabs have extensions disabled - everywhere else, it's business as usual.
Straight to the point
The complete threadThere is the desire to have fully functional support for Gecko in Maxthon - but it is still very much "in development" and due to the huge difference between the Triton and Gecko engines and the major changes required to the Maxthon code (to talk to two different engines) it is expected that due to the enormous amount of work required - a working Gecko interface may only surface later in a 2.x release (after 2.0 final) but there is nothing even in the "testing" stage yet.
http://forum.maxthon.com/index.php?showtopic=33058&st=40&p=385201&#entry385201The only thing that is missing is the Opera engine (which doesn't have a fancy name for it).
The Opera 9 layout engine is named 'Presto', which replaced the 'Elektra' engine used in versions 4–6 of Opera.But I agree "Presto" or "Elektra" are nowhere near as "fancy" as "Gecko" or "Triton" :o)
Any way back on topic - to IE vs FF
Posted 17 years ago #
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