Reformatting and losing programs............ « Giveaway of the Day Forums

Back to Giveaway of the Day

Giveaway of the Day Forums » General discussion

[closed]

Reformatting and losing programs............

(49 posts) (15 voices)

Started 17 years ago by Cinnamon
Latest reply from BigThunder1

« Previous 12

BuBBy
Teh adnim

The reason for the PM facility is so users can raise issues privately with an admin or moderator.

Admittedly the nature of this site is a little different to most, and so is the nature of communication here.

The site has entered into an agreement with different software companies to distribute their software for a limited 24 hour period. They demonstrate that there are steps in place to contain the giveaway to that 24 hour period.

In these forums we do not allow users to offer or ask for keys or software from past giveaways. Therefore, posting of private contact details such as email addresses or private/secret communication between users is not permitted.

If these steps were not taken, it may possibly jeopardise future giveaways from some developers - so for the benefit of everyone, the admins have taken these steps. Personally I think it is a small sacrifice to strengthen the viability of future giveaways for everyone. :)

Also rather than asking only one person a question (like poor lil' ol' me) it's better to ask everyone - because someone may be able to provide a better answer sooner.

Posted 17 years ago #
BigThunder1
Member

This makes sense to a degree. Not ignoring the nature of the site with respect to the developers, to deny users a way to contact one another or outside the forum IMO is a bit much, and a downright paranoid attitude. But then, sadly this is the world we live in today thanks to the proverbial 10% that have ruined it for the rest.

Case in point is my previous reply/post to kevinyunlai and the conversation we're having. The posts are self explanatory and the desire to communicate out of the public domain in regards to the subject matter is reasonable. Trials are trials, regardless how long they are, be it 14-15 days or a year. I'm not a programmer, so I fail to see how one could pass a key/registration (with few exceptions) considering the software here uses a GOTD activation via a registry entry that I will assume is tagged to the MAC or some other form of ID/serial to the PC it's installed on. This inability to contact other members/new-friends as it were, is akin to the former Berlin wall IMO, and to isolate all parties from one-another is very wrong. Yet I understand your point all to well. *sigh* We won't drag this out any further, but there is definitely something wrong in the world when it comes to a situation of policy dictation against generally accepted standards, and building more walls between people in the name of progress and prosperity after so much effort has been made historically to tear them down in the real world. Very sad.

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

Yeah.... in an ideal world...

Still don't feel that having a discussion in these forums about configuring or setting up a pc is inappropriate here. I am sure there are dozens of users who have tips or ideas.

I'm all for sharing knowledge and information - in a sense posting in these forums is closer to the ideal of sharing knowledge than having a private conversation and excluding most users from the exchange. I would rather see even one person learn something new or a problem fixed when otherwise the situation remain because it was discussed behind high walls and closed doors in private or secret.

In terms of comparing an open and transparent exchange of knowledge and ideas in a public forum - to the paranoia and persecution of people trapped behind the Berlin wall - I think you have the analogy around the wrong way.

Maybe I have it wrong... I would hope that when discussing "the optimal way to setup and rebuild a desktop windows PC" there is no need to have a discussion in private.

If you feel that people might complain because they "don't need to know or read about this" - then I say "When you walk into a Library - do you complain to the librarian because there are books on the shelves you have no interest in reading?"

Posted 17 years ago #
BigThunder1
Member

You make a valid point and I don't disagree for the most part. There is nothing secret about my desire to communicate in private, and quite honestly I don't like the implication. Private (which is the term I used) is not necessarily secret. The two words have completely different definitions. I would likely prefer to get technical and possibly ask for step by step assistance in regards to the subject matter / process, then maybe not, who knows? Depends how simple or complicated kevinyunlai's devised system is. I don't prefer to give out many details about my system, what's installed, or how I may like to configure it for security reasons in a public setting and this may be a necessary part of the conversation in regards to things possibly discussed between kevinyunlai and myself, that's all.

The Berlin wall and inability to communicate between two parties is self explanatory. The analogy was used to symbolize a barrier between two parties that is controlled by a third party. In this case based on the fear that the software market would be saturated with illegal copies of said developers wares, costing lost revenue.

That said, I'm getting tired and not focusing very well at the moment. I'm going to bed. Any further response from me will be delayed until tomorrow (it's 11:48pm my time).

Regards :)

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

Sorry, I wasn't implying you would be doing something wrong - just a general statement that the PM feature was implemented specifically in this way so it would not be possible to misuse it. It serves the purpose required by the site owners. Other sites have different requirements for their private messaging service.

I am sure that if the download, installation, review and recommendations of software required private discussion between users - they would extend the PM feature.

Posted 17 years ago #
BigThunder1
Member

Hi BuBBy,

Apologize for not getting back sooner. Been busy with a few things; I hadn't forgotten. No apology necessary because I didn't take it personally as though it appears. It's word play, and we must choose carefully in delicate conversations such as this. Secrecy in this context would indicate some deviousness verses simple privacy.

For the reasons I stated above related to security concerns, this was my concern in an open public conversation. See, I'm a nuts and bolts kinda person. I like to get into the details of the project at hand and not have to concern myself with disclosing private info in the midst of a conversation forgetting it's public and not private, or have to word my way around it in a public environment. Often this can cause frustration with the other party trying to understand what's being said, while at the same time not disclosing details possibly necessary and of a security nature to accomplish or troubleshoot something in mid stream.

So anyway, I do understand the site / developer concern(s). It seems to me there should be a way do develop a safeguard code/script of some sort to eliminate this concern of hacking/pirating by encrypting activation/registration, thus registering only via the GOTD/GGOTD activation execution since it automatically goes on line to GOTD/GGOTD servers to confirm activation immediately afterwards anyway. At this point the application registration could access the encrypted key on GOTD/GGOTD's side of the equation eliminating the need for this fear and allowing PM's between members or even email contact if said member allowed it. The entire activation/registration process would be encrypted, and the only key to do so would be on GOTD/GGOTD's server side. This would make all parties concerned happy I would think, and each could have their way without fear of the loss factor.

Some food for thought you may like to point out/pass on to the powers-that-be here at GOTD/GGOTD. Simply denying members the ability to communicate via PM's or outside the site isn't going to stop piracy for the most part. Where there's a will there's a way, but using encryption in this context could be done IMHO. I think with my idea of making the activation/registration process encrypted with GOTD/GGOTD holding the ONLY key(s) to tie it all together makes sense and would please all. Then the forum board could operate at the same level as most boards, without these piracy concerns. I personally don't have a clue how to go about it (the encryption aspect), but there's no doubt it can be done. And by opening the board in this way, I think would increase the user base substantially in time. ;)

@ kevinyunlai

Would you like to share with us here in the forum the process by which you accomplish this feat of yours? I'm sure I'm not the only one curious about how you do this. :)

Regards

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

?
I just backup my saved games and program setting and reformat.
or just do a full system restore, the problem is it takes me longer to uninstall the programs I don't want then to install the programs I want

Posted 17 years ago #
BigThunder1
Member

Hmmm...

Well kevinyunlai, thanks for the reply. It doesn't take "above average" skills as you described yourself to maintain a system that includes a basic OS install and a small number of games and three or four app's. When you say 'reformat' that would indicate wiping/reformatting the hdd, and then reinstalling everything from scratch. In your case the OS, a handful of app's, and some games. Even at that, you must have a reasonably small hdd. if you truly reformat. Reformatting a 300+ GB hdd (or more) and reinstalling XP itself would take that long. That doesn't include updates, after which installing even a few apps, updating them (if needed), and then reconfiguring everything the way one wants it (Oh... don't forget reinstalling/updating all your hardware drivers etc.).

My first mistake here was assuming you had an average system as most do with quite a few apps etc. installed. My second mistake was accepting your statement of 'above average skills'. I don't mean to belittle you here, rather point out my foolish assumption based on your comments that you had some slick technique like slipstreaming or mirroring your hdd onto a bootable disk backup of some sort. System restore is not reformatting. Restoring backed-up word docs and a few game settings from a backup disk is not reformatting.

You said...

It takes 30min to make my computer new, and it takes 60 to run a scan, which one is faster?
My computer is skill is "above average", reformatting takes no time at all for me
and I have a legal version of norton and mcafee install on my computer, The only things I need to backup are my homework, which are all word doc, the music,movie,pictures are backed up on three computer at home
I'm a teenager, they do weird stuff :)

them later you said...

?
I just backup my saved games and program setting and reformat.
or just do a full system restore, the problem is it takes me longer to uninstall the programs I don't want then to install the programs I want

In the future to eliminate question/unnecessary-inquiry, please use proper definitions/terminology to describe what your actually doing.

Thanks for clearing things up for all about what you actually do. It is greatly appreciated!

The bright side is that BuBBy and I got to open another issue that may in the future change as a result of our conversation (hopefully). Thanks all the way around.

Regards :)

Posted 17 years ago #
BuBBy
Teh adnim

Without going into a great level of details here - I would configure a "typical" system (mine is anything but typical).

Primary Drive - say 300GB - Partition into a smaller system partition and a second Data/Apps partition

so: C: 100GB and D: 200GB

Then I would setup C: with the base OS, System Drivers, Service Packs and HotFixes.

I would then use an application like GHOST to create a disk image of C: onto D:

This becomes my Base image - so if ever I want to get back just the OS with nothing else - I can restore that image.

Then progressively I install groups of applications that I consider "essential" (I will always have these on my system) at various stages I create new GHOST image snapshots to add to the ones already on the D: drive.

Each image more complete than the last - by the time I am finished I may have 4 or 5 images at various stages of the build. If I ever need to rollback to a previous image I have several checkpoints I can do so - or I can roll back to the Base OS image.

All of the applications that have external data or files (like my email client & mailboxes) are configured to store data on D: drive.. or E: or F: depending on the system.

By storing all data off the C: drive - I can roll back to an earlier / clean image and not affect any data.

My Bookmarks are saved elsewhere (in my care I use FoxMarks - with Firefox to store all my bookmarks on the internet).

This style of system build I find to be the most flexible as I can roll back or clean my system with a minimum of hassle - my data is already on a separate partition that won't be affected by a rebuild/restore.

There are also a number of directory sync programs that copy files and directory trees to other location on a computer or even other computers - this is a good idea for some folders where you cannot manually have programs look for their settings elsewhere (such as the "Application Data" folders with some programs.

At the end of the day - I can go from a broken to working config in less than 10 minutes and depending on how many GHOST type images you wish create you could have a "Work/Study" related config and after hours - ditch all of that and swap your config into a finely tuned Gaming workstation.

Once you realise that you can do this without losing data (or identifying requirements for registry backups) it is like having one pc with multiple personalities - working for the powers of good and niceness instead of evil and nastiness.

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

Bigthunder, have you reformat lately?
how long does it take to put in a window cd and reformat?
how long does word take to install?
how long does halo take to install?
how long does firefox take to install?
how long does age of empires 3 take to install?
the system restore is an easy way for people who are lazy :)
did not work for me, because my d drive got corrupted (sigh....)(the restore is on d, two drives on my computer, tried ghost once, did not like it,)

Posted 17 years ago #
BigThunder1
Member

Hi gentlemen,

BuBBy

What you described sounds pretty slick! I'd like to learn more about this in detail. Since your a moderator and have access to my email, I give my permission openly here for you to email me directly if you have the time to go into more detail and recommendations for app's etc. to accomplish what you described. Not to avoid the public scene, by all means if you so desire to lay it out here that would be fine to. I'm really interested in what you had to say there! I offer/ask you to email me, again for security reasons in reference to detailed particulars. A listing of apps etc. here and some basic procedures would be great, and I imagine I'd figure things out eventually. Email would allow at-will communication regarding specifics etc. and archiving info you may offer, allowing me time if needed to work at this if I choose to at my own pace when time to focus on it allows.

To those reading or following this thread I'm not trying to take this out of the public realm, quite the opposite. BuBBy (if he chooses) can itemize app's and basic procedures here for all to see. I only ask BuBBy to email me so I can archive the info for reference and maybe pic his brain a little about specifics related to my personal system that I may not like to disclose publicly, that's all. Thanks for understanding my request.

kevinyunlai

Yes I have. But I see where your coming from. When I reformat a hdd I do a full reformat wiping everything. Just slapping the OS disk in and allowing MS to do a 'quick format' isn't something I have faith in regarding reformatting because of corruption or infestation on a known good hdd (which has only happened once a few years ago for me). I don't trust MS OS to not mistakenly misread a sector that was quick formatted and throw another wrench in the works after all that work reinstalling everything in mass. Thus the reason I do a full complete reformat when necessary. A bad hdd is another story all together (we won't go there). I just lost my entire system a few months ago (chain reaction starting with a 4 year old mobo) and have since piece by piece rebuilt the system from the mobo up... very long story. Please don't ask. I don't want to relive the nightmare. Thanks.

It appears from your reply your doing a quick format (which yes is fast) and reinstalling 4-5 other app's give or take. Still doesn't account for hardware drivers or the OS updates IMO. I'm going to assume here that you have all your hardware drvrs archived for a quick install, as well a reasonably new edition of the OS on disk. Even still with a new OS disk there's generally some MS updating involved, which seems to be a given even if you went out 'today' and bought the latest and greatest release (it's the nature of the beast). See, we each have a different outlook about this and the way we each choose to go about it. Your keeping it pretty simple with a small fraction of app's etc. compared to what I have installed, and I think reasonably most folks fall into the same category as myself and is the reason most people dread having to reformat and reinstall everything. Even with good backup strategies and archives it can be a daunting task for some if not most people. Most people aren't that organized and don't backup regularly. So it can be a real painful experience, add to that reconfiguring everything like it was.

So now that we've cleared everything up, hopefully you can see why my responses were such comparing our different approach/outlooks to the subject at hand. I won't apologize for coming off a bit harsh and strait forward, it's just my nature to speak my mind openly. None of which was meant to be insulting (never is) and I certainly hope you don't feel I did. You've been a good sport through this conversation, and for that I thank you. Most take things on a personal level when there's no need to and turn things into something they aren't for sake of argument, usually covering their own ignorance and self denial. You may have been short and to the point, but at least with a little prodding you explained the detail that clarifies what and how your doing things on your end. Thanks for explaining your process. :)

regards

Posted 17 years ago #
BigThunder1
Member

BTW - system restore is simply to cover your butt when installing a new piece of software in case something doesn't play well with the others for the moment. Not something to relay on regarding corruption or infestation. Anyone relying on it for more than it's intended purpose is a fool. ;)

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

just trying to make this clear....
a if you had a corrupted hard drive,you would need more than reformat. you would need speical programs to "fix" it rigth?

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

also, system restore....
FULL SYSTEM RESTORE, the one that comes with your computer, not the useless microsoft system restore

Posted 17 years ago #
BigThunder1
Member

A corrupt drive refers to data corruption_(info placed on the drive).

System Restore

This can range from simply installing a new application that doesn't play well with things, in which case the built-in MS system restore feature would likely correct the issue (found in your MS OS Control Panel since Windows ME and later), provided you set a restore point before you installed your new app. This should be done prior to each and every installation of a new software app period! It's foolish not to use it. It can be a life saver, and is one of the best features MS ever incorporated into their OS. System restore restores your OS state to the point things were before the new application installation_(i.e... all settings and configurations, files replaced by the new app install etc. with the previous one(s)). Effective 99.5% of the time. Some app installations are more aggressive and overwrite certain files which are then unrecoverable, or Windows simply can't relocate/find them (usually the former). Corruption by viruses, Trojans, malware and the like can be more serious and may be cause to dig deeper into the issue, ...or possibly a complete total hdd reformat and reinstallation of everything from scratch depending on the severity of the problem(s). The exception here is that System Restore can-not restore a corrupt OS_(operating System).

Special tools for recovery come into play if you have irreplaceable critical data stored that you simply can't afford to lose_(data bases, customer info, financial etc.). In this case your likely option would be use of a professional recovery service. There are good undelete programs out there, but unless you know what your looking for (files etc.) this can be frustrating at best. If your files/data have been overwritten, this is where a professional data recovery service can come to the rescue. A word of caution; if you know you have a corruption issue, DO-NOT defrag your hdd. This will overwrite any files that have been deleted or replaced generally and lessens the restoring capabilities, if not eliminate them all together outside the use of a professional recovery service, and even then can inhibit or destroy all chance of recovery (which at times can be a crap shoot at best depending on the severity of loss/overwritten files). Again if you've done this, your best bet is a professional recovery service if you've lost critical data, or just bite the bullet and reformat the hdd and reinstall everything form scratch and start over.

Operating System Recovery that comes with some PC's that have the OS pre-installed.

System Recovery

Some PC's come with a backup of the factory installed OS and original apps and/or junk as originally installed out-of-the-box. Generally they offer you the ability to burn a set of CD or DVD recovery disks (and in some cases a recovery tools disk) that have all the original data on them installed by the manufacturer (this should be done a.s.a.p. once you setup your new PC before installing anything new). It's located in a separate partition on the hdd known as a recovery partition, and is generally protected/locked so most folks can't get into it and modify or corrupt things on their own. This is 'System Recovery', not 'System Restore'. They are two completely different animals.

There are two types of System Recovery available.

One is called a non-destructive recovery which restores the OS to it's original state as when you bought the PC new. It does not destroy your 'My Documents folder' or any saved files within and most of your OS settings. Make sure you BACK-UP your 'My Documents folder' and any data you don't want to chance losing. However, you will need to do ALL your updates again and reinstall ALL your application software after the procedure. Backup Backup Backup

A FULL System Recovery is just that. It completely wipes ALL data on the hdd, reformats it, and re-installs the OS to it's original state as it was the day you brought it home, took it out of the box, and fired it up. ALL data WILL be lost. This is what the recovery disks that you burned are used for (with the exception of the Recovery tools disk which is used for more in depth troubleshooting (not for the uninitiated/faint-of-heart)).

Hope this helps and answers your questions. :)

Regards

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

a good program to "protect" you computer is norton GOBACK.

Posted 17 years ago #
BigThunder1
Member

I'm not familiar with Norton Goback. Personally I'm not a fan of Norton after a bad experience with their AV product a few years ago. I now use Avast AV and wouldn't trade it for any of the others personally. If your interested you can find the Avast Hm free for personal use version here: http://www.avast.com/ . Requires email registration once a year, but always free for personal use. Linux version now available too. (30-million users and growing).

Posted 17 years ago #
kevinyunlai
Member

I don't like norton or mcafee, but norton is better....
Linux is fun, but there are programs that won't work on Linux yet

Posted 17 years ago #
BigThunder1
Member

No comment. http://www.avast.com/

Try this for your Windows apps not yet ported to Linux. http://www.winehq.org/

Posted 17 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

« Previous 12

Topic Closed

This topic has been closed to new replies.