Terri218
Member
Is RAM a fixed number or does it change as you install and uninstall programs? BFG's new game is a very large file and the minimum RAM requirement is larger than my computer has. If I delete a few more games, will that give me more available RAM?
Thanks as always.
reverseOrder
Member
No. Your RAM is fixed and depends on the amount and capacity of the RAM sticks your computer has. If you delete more games, it'll just free up disk space which is different from RAM.
watcher13
Member
Yeah, RO is, of course, correct. RAM is purely hardware based and therefore fixed. There is an indirect relationship to file size and RAM usage, but nothing that can even give you a rule of thumb to go by. Basically, if any program exceeds you're ratings it's likely not going to work well for you. There's some wiggle room - sometimes developer's overestimate just to be safe. And there are some occasionally effective workarounds - like using a removable drive to increase the swap file size in some computer models. But that's often not going to give you the quality of play that having enough - or more than enough - RAM is going to give you. Basically, if the program exceeds your ratings, it's not for your computer.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/ram.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random-access_memory
Here is something to read - not too NERD.
Whiterabbit-uk
Games Guru
Hi Terri,
When you say the RAM requirement of the game is larger than what your computer has. what is the game you want to play, what RAM requirements are being quoted and how much RAM do you have?
There are ways of freeing up RAM from your system. If you do the three fingered salute (Ctrl, Alt, Delete) to bring up Windows Task Manager, you can see what applications and background processes are running. You’ll probably have quite a few background processes running that aren't necessary, so these can be turned of via the processes tab. Also, if you’ve installed lots of giveaways, you'll probably find lots of them are taking up valuable RAM; you'll find some of these located on the tool bar next to the clock. you can usually turn those off by right clicking on the icon and selecting exit. Generally you'll have to find out which processes are not important and those that are essential to the running of your computer.
If you are intending to play the game offline, there's no need to be connected to the internet. If you disconnect from the net while you are plating you can then free up even more RAM by closing down all the processes responsible for your internet connection as well as all the security measures. Though always ensure that they are turned back on when you've finished playing the game. :)
There are several great programs that can help you do this automatically, but the best one IMO is called Game booster, which when activated turns off all non essential processes freeing up quite a lot of RAM (though if you want to multi task, you will have to do it manually because Game Booster turns off things like your printers )
You can download Game Booster HERE
It actually does a lot more than just turn off non essential processes. The following is the blurb I've copied from the download site:
Designed to help optimize your PC for smoother, more responsive game play in the latest PC games with the touch of a button, Game Booster helps achieve the performance edge previously only available to highly technical enthusiasts. It works by defragmenting game directories, temporarily shutting down background processes, cleaning RAM, and intensifying processor performance. That means you can keep all the features of Microsoft® Windows® Vista™ and XP® ready for when you need them, but turn them off when you are ready to get down to serious business – gaming. Game Booster makes it simpler to enjoy the latest games and take your experience to a new level. All systems go!
reference accessed 23rd Oct 09 HERE
Terri218
Member
I used to have Game Booster but removed it when I got a virus warning. It was that one that attached to a certain computer language and was supposedly harmless. I guess I should try it again. It seemed to help a little bit. Also should I go into Game Mode on Zone Alarm when I play?
The game is Tomorrow's BFG Hidden Expeditions - Devil's Triangle. It says it needs 1280 MB of RAM and my computer has only 319 MB. The demo seems to be doing OK but it is only part of the game. They are doing this with the large file games now. I called BFG customer support and they told me to go ahead and download the full game and see what happens and if it doesn't work they'll give me a credit. Anything to get my money I guess.
I guess if I keep playing all these games, I'll need to get a new computer one of these days.
watcher13
Member
Well, Terri, you probably realize that it's a lot cheaper to buy more RAM. Although if you only have around 325, it's probably time for a machine upgrade if you can afford it. But if it'll be awhile 'til you can get up the money for a new one, maybe you should consider more RAM. It's generally $20-$40, depending on whether you buy one or two cards, and frequently less. You can probably even get it installed cheap, or for free if you can find a friend that can give you help on it. Truly, you can do it yourself, I just realize that you tend to unfairly think of yourself as not able to handle it, when I doubt it's as bad as all that. But you don't even have to open it up to find out whether it's expandable, if you want to know. If you'll post your make and model, it's very easy for one of us to look it up on your manufacturer's website and they'll tell what's the maximum amount your current machine can take.
watcher13
Member
model #, please. off the tag on the back. or maybe embossed on the front, too. for example, my HP Slimeline is an s3100n. Just for an FYI, OS isn't important for this type of discussion. Whole issue is how much physical RAM can you're machine be upgraded to regardless of your OS. Although, for your purposed, XP is better than Vista, since as you probably know, it takes signficantly less RAM too run. Which means that more games are available to you. What I was saying before, if your computer has even less RAM than the game calls for, your chances aren't good regardless of what OS or any other hardware you run.
Re-Edit: Sorry, Terri, I didn't read your post about game booster. Then I wrote and explanation here thinking that said 120 instead of 1280. Sheesh! Off to the optometrist. Still, I leave the gist of it, since your wondering about RAM in general. But I would SHOCKED if a machine with 320 can run a game asking for 1280. Maybe I'm way behind on the curve for games - like I said, developers exaggerate - but, are you regularly able to run games with specs WAY above what your computer has?
It breaks down like this: Windows says XP needs a BARE minimum 64MB of RAM. But that's nonsense.re With 64, XP can load but practically not do anything. The recommended is 128. Many say you need about twice that, 256, to run smoothly. If you look at it that way, you can see that your getting pretty close to the 300 plus you've got and there might not be enough left some games. However, customizing your system to run more lean and mean or using an optimizer like Game Booster can get you down away from that 256 and free up more to run larger games. One way is to make sure you don't have too many things loading at startup that you don't need. One way to tell is too look at your system notification tray. All those little icons next to the clock. If you've got half a dozen or so, then you're running OK, although not everything shows up there. I've seen people have 30, which is crap, crap, and more crap. Turning that stuff off will lower your RAM usage.
To see most, if not everything, you can type msconfig into your Start>Search box (or your Start>Run box if your using the Classic menu) then double click or hit OK (depending on which menu). MSConfig configures your booting options, though it's really for troubleshooting rather than controlling that stuff. It has a tab that lets you see mostly all of what is booting on startup, and if you don't recognize something, google it. Anything you don't want running all the time, has to go. We can suggest various utilities for that - some you may already have - because, if you use MSConfig, you'll get an annoying message every time you boot up that you're blocking stuff, because that isn't really what Config is for.
Also, some say that the various Service Packs, like SP2, use a little more RAM, which is likely, but I haven't been able to come up with an exact spec for you, yet. But the numbers above are in the ballpark.
GMMan, Hexadecimal Blacksmith
Blocked
Most of the time, I just ignore RAM requirements because they are often inaccurate. If the demo runs fine, I would suppose the full version would run fine as well. The only thing is when you load a new level, it is loaded into RAM. If the game gets sluggish, save and quit and then restart the game.
Bigun
Member
Are you sure that the 319 MB RAM figure you quote is "system RAM" rather than the RAM memory on your video adapter board?
Some methods of reporting memory give an interpretation of the usable RAM installed rather than the rounded off figures such as "128 MB" or "256 MB".
Terri218
Member
It's not on the front and I don't have the energy today to pull the computer out. Maybe I'll look some other time. The front says 256MB PC2700 memory if that means anything.
The thing about the demos is that BFG is now offering much smaller files to demo and then if you buy it, the whole game is much larger. That's why I haven't bought Drawn yet and this new Hidden Expedition is the same thing.
watcher13
Member
PC2700 is a type of memory card. What it's telling you is that is the typical single memory card type used in your machine. Memory is usually used in a set of, at least, 2 cards. Where are you getting that 319 number from? I assume that's what your system property screen in XP is giving you. My best guess is that you have one 256, or two 128 PC2700 typecards, that came with the computer, and somebody has added a compatible 64 mb card, or two 32s, to give you a little bit of a memory upgrade. That would give you 320 and could have even come from the factory, too, or the retailer, when you bought it. 256 may have been the normal memory for the base model. I'd be willing to bet that it's still expandable. My guess, from the likely vintage, is that it's expandable to 512, which would be a 40% increase for you. That would cost you no more than $40 new for a 256 card, but no need to pay that much. Many computer shops will have some backstock that they'll sell to you for significantly less. I just checked and seen them for as low as $10 on the net - plus shipping, of course, - and on ebay for $5, if you want to take that chance. And I'm not talking about used cards, either.
Memory also has a speed rating - and that effects the price - but no need to guess at this point. One of these days, when you get your model # - at your convenience, of course - we can give you an exact answer. Maybe you've got some old paperwork around so you don't have to drag the machine out.
Edit: Again the demo size doesn't directly relate to the needed RAM. The demos are a lot smaller because they're not even bothering to give you the files that are needed to give you the full options. That'll give you a little RAM room, because some of those options won't be loaded into RAM, but a full set of files are rarely loaded all into RAM at one time, because that would be inefficient. So it's still going to be in the same ballpark. I just can't imagine with that spec that stuff like Devil's Tower would run at all on your machine, and, if it did, would even remotely run right. Even if it did, it would likely run super slow. It's worth trying, but don't get your hopes up. You're probably going to have to face it that some of the newer games are going to pass you by. But there's still no shortage of low RAM games out there. Still 1,000s and 1,000s, and 1,000s of them.
watcher13
Member
I was doing some double checking, Terri, and it might be even better than I said. The Presario 8000t starts at 256, but is upgradeable to 1G! I'm thinking you're in the 512 class, but you might be able to even triple your RAM! Then you could play LOTS and LOTS of new games.
Terri218
Member
Sounds good. I started looking at some of the other BFG games and they all seem to have the same minimum RAM requirement and I can play most of them. I stay away from really large file ones like the Nancy Drew series, but these new IHOGs are very tempting.
I'm not sure where I got that 319 number from. It's actually 192MB RAM (from Properties of My Computer)
watcher13
Member
Really? Sounds like it would at least be at 256. Though 192 is reasonable. A 128 and a 64, or three 64s. You know, it's possible that either 1 of your cards came loose or went bad. For example, four 64s would be more common. Either of those mishaps is hardly unheard of. You could have another 64Meg card that's not working or loose. If either happens, especially if one came loose, the computer will readjust and assume 192 is the right number and perform accordingly. You might just need someone to go in and reseat the memory card. Easy as pie. Have you ever moved the machine? Anyway, like I said, no need to guess. When you get the model #, we can say for sure. In any case, I'd still say it's very likely to be upgradeable.
As to this file size thing, don't worry about that as far as playability. That's really only important in deciding whether you have enough free space on your hard drive to store all the games you want, which is what I assume you mean. As far as RAM, just go by the developer's specs. They're not perfect, but they're close enough.
Terri218
Member
When I had that bad virus I was moving the computer a lot and switching its location with my older computer.
I deleted a few more games today. Of course there have been so many good freebies lately (believe me I'm not complaining about that) I keep adding new ones as fast as I remove old ones. I'm trying to sample as many new BFG games as I can to decide what I want to buy to make my 6. If I don't like it, I uninstall it right away. I'm up to 4 purchased right now with 6 days to go.
BFG's Picman posted something interesting today. He said that with these smaller trial downloads of the larger games, if you buy the game, it uninstalls the demo and installs a whole new game version, so I uninstalled Hidden Expedition Devil's Triangle demo. Of course if you have any time left you can replay from the beginning as another player. I was going to uninstall Drawn but my Add/Remove program shows it as MUCH larger than what the demo should be and actually larger than what they say the whole game size is. Very peculiar. I have 15 minutes left so I'm starting over as another player to see what happens and to remind myself if I want to buy it.
watcher13
Member
Sorry, I misread your earlier post where you said the demo for Devil's Triangle played okay. I hope I didn't cause you to dump it because of what I said. Really sorry if I did. It just seems amazing to me that they would say 1280MB and it could still play on 192. That's bizarre because they'd be discouraging SO many potential downloads from people with smaller RAM. Oh well, if common sense was so common.... I heard something like this somewhere recently, "Being in charge doesn't make you a leader anymore than being in the kitchen makes you an apple pie." Or, as it applies to some developers and other computer professionals: opening a shop doesn't make you a business expert and getting a job doesn't make you a professional. I must be the one that's crazy, because I still can't accept the idea that the inmates are running the asylum. LOL.
goodgotd
Member
on computers with agp or pci-e adapters (or, worse- shared memory video) System RAM can get a bit rubbery. Shared Memory video any memory that's allocated to the video subsystem is subtracted from the total ram in the machine, right away.
AGP and PCI-E (I'm reasonably sure) have a allocatable 'window' onto the system ram that often is the same size as the physical ram on the video card. it's for storing slow-changing stuff that doesn't need the ultra-fast updates that the ram on the card has, but I don't know when it starts getting used- probably only when the physical ram on the card fills up. My AGP Aperture is set to 128 megs on this machine.
my laptop OTOH has 192 meg ram (all it can recognize) and 8 of that disappears into the shared video on startup.
Terri218
Member
Thanks Good but I didn't understand any of that. And Watcher I didn't uninstall it because of anything you or anyone else said. I uninstalled it because as Picman stated, once you finish the free trial (or sample game as they are now calling it) of these larger games, the free trial is useless because you can't play it again if you used all your time and if you buy the full version, it uninstalls the free trial anyway. These new larger file games are set up differently from the way game demos have traditionally been set up.
watcher13
Member
Cool. I guess one of the gamers can tell you whether it's typical on these new games whether the demo requires MUCH less RAM than the actual game, so it would be easier for you to make a decision on which games to get. If that's true, it would be a new one on me, but that ain't sayin' much. :) Maybe the spec on Devil's Tower was just grossly overestimated. Or maybe it was a typo from Big Fish.
BTW, what Goody is saying is that some types of internal video setups borrow memory from RAM to augment the video cards built-in memory. Sometimes always, sometimes only when needed. The cards built-in memory, of course, is the reason for that MB stat you see people use when they talk about their video cards - and the video card spec you see on some REALLY video intense games. That borrowing to augment the cards memory helps it make the video. Doing that, though, steals a little from what you need to run other functions. As you can see by his example, though, it only borrows 8 of his total 192 off the top. And his video card memory is relatively huge for such a small RAM. So if the game gets to the point of filling his video card window, the game's probably WAY above the RAM specs for his machine, anyway, and I'm guessing would play like crap, if at all. Using that example, it's likely not a big issue for you, depending on your machine's specs.
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