devblogs.microsoft[.]com/directx/world-of-warcraft-uses-directx-12-running-on-windows-7/
A patch for World Of Warcraft includes the DirectX 12 runtime ported to win7 for the 1st time. Microsoft says hopefully other games will follow.
WOW Patch Brings DX12 To Windows 7
(14 posts) (3 voices)-
mikiem2
ModeratorMy opinion, & it's just that, is that the old Microsoft, the one that cared so much about individual users running the latest version of Windows, the one where the CEO very publicly branded Linux as something evil, no longer exists. I don't think that they're into coercing or punishing some users the ways that they used to, because they don't care as much what OS your device runs. Sure they'd rather you bought a Surface than an Apple product or Chromebook, but once you've bought a competing device, they still want you as a customer.
I'm sure Microsoft will update their Android software to work with the upcoming version, Q, and I don't see their porting DX 12 to win7 as being all that different. If nothing else, I think working with the WOW developers, porting DX 12 to win7 because they asked, is good PR that may help lure or keep some game developers working on Windows titles rather than Android or PlayStation. And/or if it's successful from Blizzard's perspective, games that Microsoft does make money from might do the same thing -- letting Blizzard take the risk, spending their money on development that might or might not pan out, vs. spending your own money makes sense.
What Microsoft wants to avoid is spending money on updating/patching win7, and this time next year those win7 updates will be paid for with increasing fees to enterprise customers with PCs still running win7, and it is not going to be cheap. If you or I are still running win7, it won't be much different, if at all, than if we were using a MAC. Microsoft will say we'd be better off running a Windows device, meaning win10, but since we're not, what can Microsoft sell you? How 'bout a game?
Posted 5 years ago # -
mikiem2
ModeratorIt could just be that I tend to be a cynic, thinking about how this might help Microsoft, rather than Microsoft trying to give win7 users a bonus.
I think that many of the people still running win7 aren't up for grabs so-to-speak -- they're happy right where they are, running Windows 7 on their existing devices, so Microsoft generally doesn't want to waste time & effort trying to get them to upgrade, and at the same time, doesn't want to antagonize potential future customers... some of them might eventually buy a new device, & if not, they might still buy or use Microsoft software, if only on their cell phone(s).
I'm curious whether there are enough gamers still running win7, that the gaming community will start working on their own, finding ways to enable DX 12 in other games? Win7 & win10 aren't all that different under the hood, so I'd think it might well be possible.
Posted 5 years ago # -
mikiem2
ModeratorWe all know that Microsoft has been trying to get Win 7 users to upgrade ever since 2015 . . .
And that might not have been too bad except that win10 wasn't really as stable as win7 until late 2017. ;) I might be a cynic, but I'm Definitely lazy... The reason I'm all in on win10 is that when I updated the hardware for this PC, I would have had to reinstall win7 to keep using it. Faced with the task of installing all the updates, & then re-installing all the software, I decided it was just so much easier to just use the copy of win10 I'd already installed, which already had most of that software. The cynic in me figured that sooner or later Microsoft was going to force me to use win10, so best be prepared.
That said, I'm chuckling as I imagine the jaws dropping as other folks read your statement that you're not a gamer. :) Yes folks, there are such people in the world, & they're more than fully functioning. :)
Posted 5 years ago # -
Suze
Member... win10 wasn't really as stable as win7 until late 2017. ;)
For too many people, win10 is still not stable [;)], though I can understand why you decided to use it after updating the hardware on your system.
I'm debating whether to ultimately go with win10, or to start using Linux now (as a dual-boot) to see if I like it enough to give up Microsoft and live without it ...
Ha! I never thought I'd be in the minority as a non-gamer. Indeed, I do consider myself "more than fully functioning," thank you ;-)
Posted 5 years ago # -
ChrisS
AdministratorI'm debating whether to ultimately go with win10, or to start using Linux now (as a dual-boot)
I'm in the same boat but I think there are two other possibilities:
1) Upgrade to the paid version of Malwarebytes (or similar) and don't worry about Windows 7 updates. It's unlikely that the mature OS has any gaping security holes and, as long as you practice "safe computing", you should get by fine with active monitoring for malware until Windows 11 comes out.
2) If MS had any business sense it would put Windows 7 updates post EOL behind a paywall that you could access for a $20 annual subscription (and not the ridiculous Enterprise fees). It gives MS what they've always wanted - a guaranteed revenue stream and a subscription model for Windows Forever (can I trademark that?). But, it's unlikely that they'd do it because it would be admitting that they're a utility and working for a utility isn't sexy. It's a job and all those programmer types would then just be working for "the man". It would also highlight the uselessness of their stock options because options require rapid price growth to be "in the money". Those options currently have no value, and will continue to have no value, because the company is a utility but they probably don't want to admit it.
If you want to try Linux, you might look into running a VM of your desired Linux choice rather than a dual-boot as it's far easier to access a "how to guide" if you have a system you already know how to use. With a VM, you can have both OS's running and switch back and forth.
Both Virtualbox or VMware Workstation Player are free (note - Workstation Player requires a 64-bit system). Both programs will run a wide swath of Linux versions but you should check compatibility for your desired Guest OS (Virtualbox, Workstation Player).
Posted 5 years ago # -
Suze
MemberI'm in the same boat but I think there are two other possibilities
I'm glad I'm not the only one ;-) As for the two possibilities:
1) Although I practice "safe computing," I have no control over a bad actor who wants to infiltrate. Though I haven't paid much attention, it would be interesting to note how "safe" the WinXP folks -- who continued to go online -- were after EOL. As for Windows 11? With all the 'practice' MS has with having to patch patches to patched updates, and upgrades, for win10, I don't think so.
2) I agree, and bet there would be a market for non-enterprise Window 7 users paying for a reasonable subscription service, a la
Windows Forever
-- consider it trademarked ;-)Thanks for the suggestion of using a VM instead of a dual boot; that option makes a lot of sense (and flexibility).
Best of luck with whichever you decide!
Posted 5 years ago # -
mikiem2
ModeratorThere's a case to be made for booting both win10 & Linux, since you'll soon be able to access your Linux files in Windows. Microsoft has also been increasing the capabilities of the Linux distros you can run in win10.
I'm not that sure that running win7 will ever be much more of a threat to users once support ends, because the vast majority of cybercriminals go after the vast majority of low hanging fruit, those users whom are frankly maybe stupid enough to open the wrong emails. The more sophisticated attacks that Microsoft tends to patch against aren't something Jane or Joe Average is that likely to encounter on their home PC.
... until Windows 11 comes out
I actually don't see why that would ever happen. Right now Windows is a necessary evil for Microsoft, and if they had something better to run all their cloud servers on [only some specializations are Linux -- so far], AND, if they had some confidence that their enterprise customers would continue using Office 365 on something like Chromebooks, Windows would cease to exist. There's also the part where enterprise IT staff in a Windows biz environ are [ahem] maybe less skilled than their counterparts in a pure Linux shop -- as much as the heads of whatever biz might dislike their IT dept., they still listen to them rather than bother figuring out the right decisions themselves.
I think win10 is there simply because the new leadership at Microsoft hasn't found a good way to eliminate it from their product list. And now that they've squirreled away Windows development staff in the catacombs, where hopefully they'll not cause too much trouble, or too often cause the CEO to remember that they make Windows, it'll likely stay that way while Microsoft fiddles with how to compete against Android & Chrome OS.
... it would be interesting to note how "safe" the WinXP folks -- who continued to go online -- were after EOL.
IMHO it's a matter of who makes the best targets if I'm a bad guy. I could be entirely wrong, but I'd think someone running XP would be lower value than someone running win10, because no recent hardware will even run XP, so you're probably talking people with less income, and so less to steal. At the same time I'm thinking to myself [still in bad guy mode], who are these people who still run win7? How many of them are the type of person that just doesn't care? Are there enough of those people, who are bound to be the easiest targets, that it's worth my time & effort to specifically target win7? If that's the case, I'd really go after any win7 machine, trying to mine the motherload. But again, that's just the sort of thinking I'd imagine myself doing if I was a bad guy, & I could be completely off base.
As for the two possibilities:
How 'bout another?...
V/Box will run on Linux or Windows. Win7 & win10 will both run in V/Box. You could try out win10 that way, or if you decided it might be more secure, use it just when any extra security might be handy. While not really portable, win10 is more portable than any previous versions of Windows, so there's a great chance that if you decided to go all in, restoring an image backup of that VM to your real HDD would work, so no reinstalling software you'd added. Or run win7 as a VM. The maybe increased security of win10 or Linux as host should add at least some protection, and at the least the VM is isolated, so any compromise wouldn't own your PC.That said, Windows has some downsides as a VM... It's slower, though having the VM's VHD on a SSD should help more than with native Windows. Not all software will work, though most does. After some hot fixes both win7 & win10 can seem a bit balky for a while, until I assume a later hot fix fixes it [the way it seems to work anyway]. If you run the VM Host software in win10, unless you use Microsoft's Hyper-V, it can be a tradeoff between win10 features using Hyper-V or using the VM software, but not both. In my limited experience [I tried it & rather quickly abandoned the effort] Hyper-V is more work but can work well enough as a VM host. The main feature using Hyper-V that I can see using is the upcoming sandbox, as I've had problems using TimeFreeze & an older copy of Shadow Defender in win10 1809. My personal solution wasn't to move to Hyper-V from V/Box, but if/when I want the Sandbox to use the base, minimal copy of win10 I use instead of a WinPE or other type of boot disc/USB stick. I sacrifice a bit over 10 GB of hard drive space, using it primarily for backup/restore, fixing driver problems etc.
One big advantage of running win10 as a VM, using a win7 or Linux host, is that it'd be stable, working both before and after required version upgrades. I'm waiting, hoping that Microsoft releases the ISO for the April version upgrade, so I can go through the testing to see if everything will still work. Every problem I've had with new versions, and the problems Microsoft acknowledges, are mainly regarding drivers -- either they've changed their driver model, or something new in Windows won't work with existing drivers. The drivers V/Box uses have never changed, & I've never had a problem, with win10 VMs that started with the pre-release versions, and have been upgraded through 1809.
The advantages I see in V/box, FWIW, besides ease of use, is that it's easier to keep dynamically expanding .vdi virtual hard disks compacted [small] using CloneVDI, which makes it less painful to store copies of those .vdi files -- do whatever I want in a VM, then copy a copy of the original into place, and it's all as if nothing ever changed, because it hasn't. Compacting a Windows .vhd virtual hard disk file in win10 requires Hyper-V & Powershell -- not hard, but harder. [I kept win7's Virtual PC just for compacting .vhd files.]
Posted 5 years ago # -
mikiem2
ModeratorA quick addition... it occurred to me that I maybe should have mentioned SCDKey, where I've picked up win10 pro keys for ~$12. I believe that what they sell are legitimate keys, but likely intended for the companies that sell devices like PCs & laptops. Back when win10 was new Microsoft would deactivate your copy if you changed anything, so I replaced a free upgrade key with one from SCDKey, and it worked, so I bought another that I held in reserve. Years later when I upgraded this PC's motherboard & CPU, win10 deactivated, so I used that 2nd key I'd saved, & it still worked. I believe it was/is an OEM key because it deactivated with the [admittedly major] hardware change. In hindsight I should have kept the upgrade key rather than replaced it, but I hadn't foreseen Microsoft relaxing it's criteria for deactivation.
Somewhat related, and on the offhand chance it's somehow useful... I ***think*** Microsoft records a win10 activation along with a hardware key for the device, and while it associates activated copies of win10 with the Microsoft account used [if one's used], it's only the hardware key that matters. What changed with win10 is that you can reinstall Windows & the new copy will automatically activate. The same seems to be true if you install an additional copy [or copies] of win10.
[With apologies because this is complicated] I have 1 Insider copy of win10 that I'd kept updated [occasionally anyway] since pre-release. I have 1 base copy of win10 that I keep around instead of using WinPE -- it was originally an insider copy, but 32 bit, that I've kept since pre-release, and when AMD stopped making 32 bit graphics drivers, I reinstalled it as 64 bit, at the same time un-enrolling it from the Insider program. Both of those were activated using a pre-release key, and stayed activated. And I have my main, working copy of win10 that was activated as an upgrade, but that key was replaced by the one I bought from SCDKey. All 3 copies are associated with different Microsoft accounts.
When I upgraded the motherboard/CPU all 3 copies deactivated. When I used the 2nd key I'd gotten from SCDKey, all 3 were activated. When I stopped using win7 [because of the hardware upgrade] that left me with a no longer used SSD. I wanted to check performance of win10 installed natively to this CPU vs. the copy that had originally been installed with an Intel CPU, so I stuck a copy of win10 on that SSD. It automatically activated.
That SSD is about 5 years old now, and was a cheaper SSD to begin with, so I bought an NVMe SSD. It was a 3-4 day PITA to get the PC booting from that new drive, and over the course of getting something, anything to work I installed a fresh copy of win10 on it. That copy also automatically activated, so I believe that once you get one copy of win10 activated on a device, any other copies you install will also be activated.
There'a also a flip side. It's long been thought that Microsoft used a secret process to derive that key, which was based on several of the device's hardware components and the MAC address. Depending on the type of license, a limited amount of hardware changes were then allowed before the license deactivated, after which you may or may not be able to reactivate, again depending on type of license. I believe that every copy of win10 I've installed, or at least the copies on the 2 SSDs, were recorded as hard drive changes associated with the one key. And so I've now got at least 2 fewer changes that are permitted before win10 deactivates.
Again apologizing for the longish story -- I'm not 100% certain of my conclusions, so wanted to say what they were based on -- **IF** you decide to play with win10 a bit, *might* not hurt to bear that stuff in mind.
Posted 5 years ago # -
mikiem2
ModeratorYou're more than welcome.
I'm thinking that there are some people with PCs that can't install & use win10, e.g. for lack of driver support. It could be a viable solution for them to run win10 as a VM that's given more resources [CPU cores & RAM mainly], since the VM would be the primary software in use. I'm guessing that running that VM in a lighter weight Linux distro *might* not be a bad setup, so wanted to get that idea at least out there in case it interested anyone.
Also apologies for maybe the hard line on win11. Microsoft execs get paid based on stock prices. Those stock prices reflect how folks on Wall St. think whatever company will perform in the future -- the idea of course is to buy low, then sell when stock prices rise, & the reverse, dump stock before prices drop. PC sales have been declining for years -- many are hopeful that just maybe it's reaching the bottom end of the slide, finally. Microsoft's Windows biz, no matter how big it is right now, has been declining with PC sales, so to Wall St. that biz is declining in value, and good cause for Microsoft stock prices to drop. Microsoft's cloud biz OTOH has been growing like crazy, and probably why Microsoft stock prices value it as one of the world's most valuable companies. So understandably Microsoft talks all the time about how great their cloud biz is, and does everything it can to make these people forget that it also sells Windows. TO that end they've fired roughly 1/2 the Windows coders, and split the remaining ones mainly under 2 other departments, getting rid of the guy who was in charge of Windows for years. They are spending resources on things that might seem to be big in the future to Wall St., e.g. working on a lighter version of a Windows-Like OS that isn't Windows, that will also or even only run on ARM processors.
Posted 5 years ago #
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