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My favorie Shmups over the last few years.

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Started 6 years ago by Whiterabbit-uk
Latest reply from mikiem2

Whiterabbit-uk
Games Guru

Savant - Ascent is on sale at the moment with 75% off. It's only £0.39p :) or around $0.50. Offer ends 18th September 18

When the Shmup ‘Astro Fury’ was given away two weeks ago (1st Sept 18) one community member (Micheael), asked me what my top three Shmups were? I replied saying it would be impossible to list three because I've played so many Shmups over the past 30 odd years I've lost count and many of them I cannot recall the names of. Also, it depends on my present mood, what other games I’m playing at the moment (usually the MMORPG The Elder Scrolls Online at the present). So, I said I would compile a list of my favorites. The trouble is, there are so many that I’ve forgotten the names of. I still have most of them, but my haphazard storage and backups plus lack of labelling has made in nigh on impossible to find many of the games I used to play, especially as I have many terabytes of backups; for example, my Battlefield 2 collection of mods and maps is over 1 TB in size (just for one game). The list I’ve compiled below includes most of the games I’ve played over the last couple of years that I’ve added to my favorites list via Steam, plus several freeware games that although not available via Steam, I’ve added to my Steam library and are also included in my favorites.
The following are only a selection of the ones I consider decent Shmups and are IMO guaranteed to give you some exciting, riveting and decent game play. I've included some freeware titles and a good selection of Japanese shmups that I also highly recommend. They don't tend to follow the space oriented art that European and American developers use, but the games are very similar in other respects. I've had a lot of fun playing them all. Most of the Japanese developed games are bullet hell type shooters and are hard to beat. Too be honest, I've never completed any one of them, but have spent many hours trying. The art work for the Japanese shooters, tends to be linked with anime characters or has weird animal bosses. One of the things I love about those games are they are different from the usual Shmups I’ve grown up with plus they tend to be colorful and beautifully done so the odd images do not detract from the game experience.

Free

Fraxy - arena shooter (free)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Return to Sector 9
Watch video of game play HERE

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Naac arena shooter (when you download this look to the bottom of the page for a few more free Shmups or download HERE
Watch video of game play HERE

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Grid Wars
(arena shooter) ( was redirected to a second page where it asks to restart the download.
Watch video of game play HERE

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Echoes + -arena shooter
Watch video of game play HERE

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Commercial Shmups (all available on Steam):

Valkyrius Prime vertical shooter
Watch video of game play HERE

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Syder Arcade horizontal shooter
Watch video of game play HERE

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Ultratron arena shooter

Watch video of game play HERE

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Absolute Blue horizontal shooter
Watch video of game play HERE

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Beat Hazard arena shooter. The waves are activated by music. You can add your own soundtracks to the game. Playing something very energetic gives you a very hard game, something slow, gives you an easier game because the slow beat will give you slower enemy waves.

Watch video of game play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubal48fqtDM">HERE

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Really Big Sky horizontal shooter
Watch video of game play HERE

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Gravitron 2 -
(multidirectional shooter/cave flyer). The original Gravitron version is freeware, though I could only find an android version to download HERE

Watch video of game play HERE

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Jets'n'Guns Gold
- (horizontal shooter)
Watch video of game play HERE

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Satazius - (horizontal shooter)
Watch video of game play HERE

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Waves - (arena shooter) -
Watch video of game play HERE

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Retro Booster - (Multidirectional shooter/cave flyer)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Japanese shooters:

Ikaruga (vertical shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Crimzon Clover WORLD IGNITION
Watch video of game play HERE

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ShineG in the Bullethell
Watch video of game play HERE

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Mushihimesama

Watch video of game play HERE

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Xenoslaive Overdrive
Watch video of game play HERE

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Gundemonium Recollection
Watch video of game play HERE

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Hitogata Happa
Watch video of game play HERE

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Gundeadligne
Watch video of game play HERE

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Jamestown

Watch video of game play HERE

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eXceed – Gun Bullet Children
Watch video of game play HERE

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eXceed 2nd - Vampire REX
Watch video of game play HERE

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eXceed 3rd – Jade Penetrate Black Package
Watch video of game play HERE

You can get all three eXceed games in one collection (cheaper) HERE

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Others Shmups worth a mention:

Deathsmiles
Watch video of game play HERE

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Death Ray Manta
Watch video of game play HERE

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Space Giraffe
Watch video of game play HERE

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Savant - Ascent
Watch video of game play HERE

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Star Mazer
Watch video of game play HERE

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Danmaku Unlimited 2 (there's a third now, but I've stopped buying games for the time being, so haven't played it. The original was released back in 2013 whereas the newer one
Watch video of game play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7Nfekv3V4s">HERE

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Danmaku Unlimited 3 was released last year (2017).

Watch video of game play HERE

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Solar Shifter
Watch video of game play https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpJ8fqqdevo">HERE

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Psichodelya
Watch video of game play HERE

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Railgunners
Watch video of game play HERE

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Star Conflict (free to Play)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Geometry Wars
Watch video of game play HERE

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Finally check out Caiman's Shoot em Up section, which has well over 200 shooters, many are probably not worth downloading, but there are some good ones as well, all free HERE; plus the giveaway game discussion forums, especially the game discussion forums HERE.

I posted a lot of freeware games several years ago as part of a project called Good Games to Grab. For example Lethal Application posted in week 139 HERE, though the original link needs updating. I’ve just not had the time to do it. However, I have just found another live link for the game HERE. Softonic is a safe download, however, they do ask you to sign in via Google or Facebook. They do offer alternative downloads but these are not guaranteed. You can also find more space shooters (not all are free) HERE. We posted well over 2 thousand freeware games. A lot of the links may no longer be working, but it should be easy enough to find the games elsewhere. Sadly, most images I posted are also gone because I used free image hosting sites that no longer exist. I have a hankering to update everything, however, it’s a mammoth job. We did create an index post called Free Games Synopsis that is alphabetical HERE, but we stopped adding games at around halfway through the project and it hasn't been updated in years, so a lot were never added to the index. I did start to update it, but instead of adding to the original index I kept all my work on word documents; none of which survived a hard drive crash. Those backups were on an external drive that was dropped by one of my children when they were much younger, and I’ve never been able to access the disk again (it was a 2-terabyte disk with a lot of backups. I’ve kept it with a view to sending it to an expert to see if it’s possible to recover what’s on the disk because I had several months of video and photographs on it that I cannot find on any of my other disks. I’ve since replaced Sd and micro SD cards whenever they were full instead of overwriting stuff so that I have secondary backups of everything now.

Posted 6 years ago #
Whiterabbit-uk
Games Guru

I've finally added the images and video I promised two months ago. Hope you find something you like. :)

Here are more shmups and 'mainly' space oriented shooters, though I have included some sims and strategy games with a space theme. If you love space sims I highly recommend the X, X2 and X3 franchise (see the end of comment for links to all five in the series) A few of the games have not been released yet.

ALLTYNEX Second - (vertical bullet-hell shoot 'em up)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Bit Blaster XL - (arena shmup - arena = top down)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Dark Matter - (retro arena shmup)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Defend Felinearth - (arena anime bullet hell shmup)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Diadra Empty - (horizontal anime bullet hell shmup)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Drive to Hell - (twin-stick shoot em' up)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Ensign-1 - (4x space sim - cockpit shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Exostorm - (bullet-hell vertical shmup)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Fairspace - (SP/Coop space sim)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Galaxy on Fire 2 full HD - (open world space sim)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Geometry Wars™ 3: Dimensions Evolved - (twin stick arena shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Gran Vitreous - (arena shooter with rpg elements)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Gunslugs 2 - (retro shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Platypus - (vertical claymation shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Platypus II - (vertical claymation shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Raptor - Call of The Shadows - (vertical shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Raptor - Call of The Shadows (1994 Classic Edition)] - (classic vertical shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Retro/Grade
Watch video of game play HERE - (horizonal shmup)

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Roche Fusion - (arena shmup)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Rodina - (open world space sim)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Space Salvager - (space miner)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Spaceforce Homeworld - (missile hell - space invaders)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Star Drifter - (vertical shmup)

Watch video of game play HERE

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UfoPilot: Astro-Creeps Elite - (arena shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Weird Worlds: Return to Infinite Space - (roughlike space)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Infinite Space III: Sea of Stars - (roughlike space starship adventures)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Zotrix - (arena shmup with rpg elements)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Zotrix - Solar Division - (excellent space tower defense)
Watch video of game play HERE

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Polandbal: Can into Space! - (dark comedic space strategy sim)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Rebel Galaxy - (open world space sim)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Shmups Skill Test シューティング技能検定 - (vertical shmup)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Freespace 2 (4x open world space sim)

Watch video of game play HERE (epic space sim the original used to be free till steam and other sites got their hands on it)

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Haegemonia: Legions of Iron - (4x space strategy)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Haegemonia_The_Solon_Heritage/ - (4x space strategy)

Watch video of game play HERE

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1917 – Alien Invasion DX - (retro vertical shmup)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Aces of the Galaxy - (on rails space shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Lazy Galaxy: Rebel Story - (retro horizontal shmup)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Sol Galaxy Defender - (TPS defend your base rail shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE - (no direct link to the video. Click on the link below images on the Steam page to see video)

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Redux: Dark Matters - (horizontal shmup)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Space Wars: Interstellar Empires - (free early access - space strategy)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Bladestar - (proceduraly generated vertical shmup

Watch video of game play HERE

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Redout: Space Assault - (space - tactical dogfighting - release TBA)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Fleets of Ascendancy - (strategy shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Star Horizon - (on-rails space shooter)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Battlefleet Gothic: Armada - Tau Empire - (space strategy)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Battlefleet Gothic: Armada 2 - (space strategy)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Battlefleet Gothic: Armada - (space strategy)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Battlefleet Gothic: Armada - Space Marines - (space strategy)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Distant Worlds: Universe - (4x space strategy)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Battlespace - (Free- space strategy - anime)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Galaxy in Turmoil - (Free - release TBA)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Between the Stars - (Starship Simulation & Management)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Lord of Rigel - (4x space strategy release TBA)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Starship Corporation - (spaceship builder)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Bladestar - (turned based space strategy)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Ancient Frontier - (turned based space strategy)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Dreadnought - (turned based space strategy) - (free capital space ship battles)

Watch video of game play HERE

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Other space oriented games I would higly recommend are the 4x space simulations X: Beyond the Frontier, X: Tension, X2: The Threat, X3: Reunion, X3: Terran Conflict, and X3: Albion Prelude. You can get the complete X collection of these games in the X-Superbox bundle (well worth getting during one of Steams big sales). Also worth a mention is Elite Dangerous, sadly Elite Dangerous: Arena was removed from Steam some time ago, and if you fancy Space strategy games Star Wolves, Star Wolves 2, Star Wolves 3: Civil War, and Starion Tactics are worth checking out, though Starion Tactics has mostly negative reviews on Steam. One final thing, if you can find a copy of Freelancer get it. It's now free, but it's hard to find a safe download. I have a hard copy which I purchased via eBay several years ago. I only discovered after I'd purchased it that it was a rip off as the guy had just copied the free version to a DVD, using one of those printable DVD's to get the freelancer logo printed on the disk. It works, but it was annoying to find the game was free anyway.

Addendum

Freelancer - (4x space trading and combat simulation)

I read that it was almost impossible to find a safe download link for microsoft's now free to play Freelancer. I found a download site that after checking, had good reviews, so downloaded and have had no issues with the file. You can get the game for free via Old PC Gaming HERE and check gameplay via THIS video. It's a 4x space trading and combat simulation. The graphics are a little dated, but once you are in combat mode, it's not as obvious. Well worth getting if you love Space sims (those who do probably already have this game. It's also moddable, so you'll find extra content on various gaming sites, though I don't think there is a dedicated site specifically for Freelancer.

Posted 6 years ago #
mikiem2
Moderator

Hi WR

"... I had several months of video and photographs on it that I cannot find on any of my other disks. I’ve since replaced Sd and micro SD cards whenever they were full instead of overwriting stuff so that I have secondary backups of everything now."

The most durable, cheap backup media I've found is DVD -- if you ever get around to it might be a good idea to copy the stuff on the cards & burn to DVD. If you Google on SD card longevity you'll see info that's all over the place, from a couple of years to 5 or 10. And there's one unknown that bothers me -- much more cheaply made counterfeit SD & microSD cards are rampant. People report buying counterfeit cards from Amazon & elsewhere that visually look genuine, right down to the packaging.

"... none of which survived a hard drive crash. Those backups were on an external drive that was dropped by one of my children when they were much younger, and I’ve never been able to access the disk again... I’ve kept it with a view to sending it to an expert to see if it’s possible to recover what’s on the disk..."

If it's one of those external drives sold in a case, like WD's, take the hard drive out, hook it up, and see what happens. If a younger child dropped it, it probably didn't fall that far, and if it's not running at the time it's dropped, regular hard drives can be pretty durable. You'd likely want to take it out of the case anyway if you sent it in, so no worries if the case gets damaged taking it apart. At 2 TB it's probably just a regular hard drive, so you could plug it into a PC or use an external dock. Do use a fan though if you use a dock -- the drive can get hot enough to damage itself &/or the stored data. Only hard part is if it's IDE [remember those?]. It took a while, but I did find an adapter on ebay when I found an old IDE drive packed away a few years back.

Posted 6 years ago #
Whiterabbit-uk
Games Guru

Hi Mikien, 'scuze the late reply. I do have a lot of DVD backups as well. I haven't researched SD cards but I assumed if you didn't reuse then, the data should remain for a long time. I have backed most of them up onto either DVD or Blu Ray disks. When I built my last gaming computer I included a Blu Ray burner, so got into using the 25GB disks, so that I could pack in a lot more data, but later I realized that if anything went wrong with one of those disks I'd stand to lose a lot more data, so I've reverted to using DVD's again. I usually have at least three backups of everything these days just to be sure.

I did remove the disks from their housings and then reused them with new disks.

I still have a few older motherboards with IDE connections. In fact, at least two of my older working computers still have IDE hard drives in them, but none of them are bigger than around 250GB, which are far too small for anything but office apps etc. If I wanted to use them for gaming, some of my games are upwards of 50GB in size and if I installed games like Battlefield 2 (released 2005) and included some of the mods and maps, I'd fill the disk before I got 25% through installing them.

I remember while I was doing my teaching diploma back in the early 90's. I was friendly with the technician in the computing room and always remember him being really excited about buying a 1GB hard drive. At the time I had a 40MB Hard Drive an running Windows 3.1. The computer had 4MB of RAM.

Posted 6 years ago #
mikiem2
Moderator

"I assumed if you didn't reuse then, the data should remain for a long time."

I really don't know... The flash memory chips they use in SSDs slowly lose the electrical charge that turns each bit from a 0 to a 1. It takes a very long time, but it happens. [Google "bit rot" w/out quotes] With SD cards I don't see a consensus on how long they'll safely store data -- folks seem to agree that the more you use them the more prone they are to failure, but I didn't see the kind of longevity studies they do with optical discs. Now with optical discs, DVDs & CDs probably last at least 100 years, if they don't suffer physical damage, while the Blu-ray discs you burn might not last a day -- seriously! I've had them go bad sitting on the shelf, waiting to be burned. I've also have some that are a few years old that still work. I've read a lot of reviews that says a month or two after burning, tops. They do sell Blu-ray M discs, which are supposed to be good for long term storage, but they're very pricey -- Amazon wants $230 for a 25 pack from Verbatim.

"... always remember him being really excited about buying a 1GB hard drive."

:)
What *You* want is a fast SAMSUNG 970 EVO or Pro M.2 2280 PCIe Gen3. X4, NVMe 1.3 64L V-NAND 3-bit MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD), on a motherboard that handles the NVMe part. No SATA speed limits! Insanely Fast!

pcworld[.]com/article/2899351/storage/everything-you-need-to-know-about-nvme.html

Posted 6 years ago #
Whiterabbit-uk
Games Guru

Thanks for the info Mikiem.

I've held off building a new computer for myself for a couple of years now. The last one I built was for my son two years ago. Mine is now 6 years old apart from the MoBo and graphics card, which were fried by my daughter when she ripped the power cord out last year. (I'd confiscated her computer after asking her to clean her room for weeks. You couldn't walk into her room without standing on rubbish. In a fit of rage, she yanked out the power cord of my computer while I was in the middle of something. I remember hearing a massive crackle from the speakers as she pulled the socket out of the back of the computer). A surge of power burnt both the MoBo and older GTX card. I replaced the card with 2 second-hand GTX 980ti's with a total of 12GB of gRAM, which I got at a bargain price via eBay.

I used to be into updating to the latest tech, but as the kids have become more and more expensive to keep at home, I've had to cut back on such luxuries. I thought when they left for university things would get easier, but with the loan system we've adopted, Cal decided to go to the nearest university so that he could live at home and thus save on accommodation fees, which are ridiculously expensive. So he commutes from home and does not contribute anything to his upkeep. (Our choice as we don't want him saddled with a massive debt when he graduates). He's doing a Master of Pharmacy degree, which is a four-year course, then he has a year of pre-registration to work through before he qualifies, so it's going to be a long wait before I get my dream machine. He only has to go in for practical sessions and placements as all the lectures are podcast, so he watches them at home to save on train fares; so basically only spends around 2 days a week at uni. We pay for everything so that his student loan doesn't get too unwieldy for him. Our daughter is going to uni next year, but she definitely wants to live away from home. She's always been an adventurous one. She's going to South America for several weeks next year with Camps international before she starts her course (she's hoping to study Dental surgery).

So, any thoughts of building a new computer have been put on the back burner for a few more years yet. Thankfully my computer still holds its own with all the recent game releases. I'm still using a second generation i7, which is the limiting factor. I did buy a second-hand computer for my daughter for her birthday last year, which knocks my computer for six when it comes to speed. I spent weeks checking out second-hand computers via eBay and settled on one that had the graphics cards removed as it was really cheap when I calculated how much it would cost to build the same computer from new. I got it for less than a quarter of the price I'd have paid if I'd purchased all the parts myself.

Regarding the broken hard drive I mentioned previously. I did place it in a new housing, which I purchased specifically for the purpose, but it still didn't work;
(another one that had been damaged did work, so the housing wasn't wasted). So I'm considering stripping the drive and moving the magnetic disk to a cheap housing in the hope I can access the data that way. I'd obviously have to create a dust-free environment by carrying out the work in a large polythene bag. Whether that is a practical solution I don't know, but it would be much cheaper than taking it to an expert. The only things I'm interested in are the family photos and videos of the kids that were on that drive. Ever since that incident I've always made sure to create more than one backup and as said previously I never delete photos and videos from the SD cards; instead I replace them with new ones. But I also make hard copy backups on DVD (I've stopped using the 25GB Blu Ray disks for backups.

The way my daughter dropped the drive was actually more like her knocking it off the desk onto a solid floor. I'd been tidying up my desk and had stupidly placed the drive at the edge of the desk (temporarily). I'm left-handed, so usually place such items on my right-hand side and never on the edge. My daughter is right-handed, which didn't help.

Posted 6 years ago #
mikiem2
Moderator

On repairing the hard drive, I don't know... I was curious so I Googled, and some of the more often repeated stuff makes sense to me. The most often repeated caution was that if you attempt repair & aren't successful, that's it -- there probably are no other options. The importance of having a clean room environment may be overstated -- after all, if you're in the biz of hard drive recovery, what better ad copy than saying a clean room is mandatory. 3rd, while you might get really lucky and something is just stuck -- there are reports of getting the hard drive working enough to copy it by just smacking it -- more often you need parts. And most often that means getting your hands on an identical drive that's working, so you can perform whatever transplant -- most of the stuff I read talked about swapping the platters from the old drive into the working one. Without expensive special tools that's tricky. As the most fragile moving part, it makes sense that the drive read & write heads are the most often damaged part in a dropped hard drive. Because the platters probably have the most mass, it makes sense that the bearing they ride on could also, but less often get damaged.

Worst case is if the drive heads, or maybe the armature supporting them got bent from the impact, and damaged the platter surface itself. In that case the data's probably unrecoverable [unless you spend huge amounts of money], and if you sent the drive in for repair, might mean you owe money for tear down and inspection of a drive that cannot be recovered.

Good luck whichever way you decide to go. :)

Good luck for your son too. Pharmacy here is a 5 year course with a couple of years working as a tech if I remember correctly. Good field with loads of opportunities available. As I understand it, most of the work is often actually a business management sort of thing, since everything is computerized, including automatically referencing any drug interactions etc. The scripts come in, the computer prints them out & handles the bookkeeping, and a pharmacy tech helps counting out the pills and attaching the labels. The pharmacist handles stock ordering, makes sure the pharmacy complies with all the drug-related regulations, manages techs & cashiers, but spends most of their time just trying to make sure the pharmacy keeps up with the number of scripts coming in.

NOT trying to sell you on upgrading, but in case it interests anyone thinking about taking the plunge...

Personally, for just general stuff like web browsing, office, casual gaming, light photo editing etc. I'd go with a miniPC. High end versions can be used for harder core gaming, provided you use an external graphics card set-up, but to me anyway, by the time you spend that much money might was well get a regular, & *upgradable* PC. Without a PC case [mine is ~6" square by maybe 2" high], no power supply, no card slots, no CPU socket [it's attached directly to the board], they can save a lot of cash, not to mention desk space, and their usually pretty quiet with no case fans if that matters. My Beebox doesn't even have a fan with it's small Celeron CPU.

Myself, normally I start worrying about the power supply and motherboard at around the 5 or 6 year mark, but since you replaced it last year I'd imagine the motherboard is just fine. I used to upgrade every few years, but in stages, never replacing everything all at once so I could keep the price down. But I always put my old parts in my wife's PC, so they were in use for about 6 years. But the last couple of years she's hardly been using her PC, so I wasn't planning to upgrade at all -- I was running an i7 4790, which last spring wasn't all that much slower than the current i7s -- but my wife intervened in the form of an anniversary gift. I got a 2nd gen. Ryzen 2700 for a very good price, spent more than I had to for a X470 board because the power circuitry was highly rated [the last AMD chip I ran was a Phenom 2, & I still *Vividly* remember that part of the board catching fire], and our son gladly took my old i7 & motherboard as an upgrade for his older i5. Since it is a nicer board it has a couple of M2 slots for those SSD sticks [rather than the more common 2.5" casing], and I still marvel at the speed of those Samsung drives I mentioned last post -- don't know that I'd ever take advantage of that much speed, and doubt I'll ever buy one, but read at over 3GBps and write at over 2.5GBps, WOW!

Graphics cards are still relatively overpriced, because of the cryptocurrency miners buying everything in sight, but DDR4 RAM is finally coming down in pricing, along with SSDs, while more of the cheapest conventional hard drives are now back to 7200 RPM, making them Much more usable. 16GB of RAM [2 x 8GB sticks] now starts around $115, 2 4GB sticks are about 1/2 that, ~220GB SSDs around $50, 1TB conventional hard drives around $40. Intel CPUs are as expensive as always, but AMD's Ryzens are a quality, cheaper alternative, and their 1st generation CPUs [2nd generation is current] are very often on sale for a Very good price. Good, brand name X370 motherboards for that 1st generation are also often on sale for good prices too -- this morning saw an Asus board dropped from an MSRP of $100 down to $60. [The AMD B250 1st gen boards are the cheaper models -- the X370s are the gaming boards, allowing for more than one graphics card etc.] Cooler prices are about the same as they've been for years & years, though there are more companies selling water coolers now, some for about half the price of Corsair. That said, if you don't overclock [increase the frequency the CPU runs at], the stock coolers that come with the Ryzen CPUs should be fine. At any rate now's a good time to buy devices or components in the US, what with all the Black Friday & related sales.

The self-contained water coolers are nice, but I can't help but wonder about longevity... I've had 3 Corsair coolers fail now under their 5 year warranty, and the fans on one of the warranty replacements just failed at the 4 year mark. Never had coolant leaking -- my biggest fear -- but one pump failure & 2 radiators having corrosion built up from coolant seepage.

The cheapest PCs I've seen are the used corporate desktops returned when their lease expires, often in the $79 range. They're usually listed as remanufactured, which generally means someone made sure that they worked -- there's nothing to replace/remanufacture on a working PC. The 2nd cheapest new PCs I've seen are some of the miniPCs. You can buy them complete, or as so-called bare bones devices, where you add a SSD & RAM. The price varies with the CPU used, the most expensive being an Intel i7, the cheapest using something like one of Intel's Atom chips, e.g. a Celeron, with a Celeron bare bones kit maybe starting around $150 on sale. I got an open box Celeron miniPC [a BeeBox that someone had returned new] for about $125 around 3 years ago, and running win10 it's fine for most stuff -- it'll handle casual [not AAA] games, Office & the like, though I use it mainly for playing Blu-rays on TV. The absolute cheapest new PCs I've seen are the cheap Windows tablets out of China, going for around $75-$80. I feel they can be very usable. I have a 7" tablet with 2 USB ports [1 mini], & a mini HDMI port -- while the 7" screen is almost unusable, I can connect it to power, a monitor, and a keyboard & mouse using a USB hub, and it performs like a regular PC. I also have a newer 10" tablet -- there the screen is usable, or I can connect it to a monitor, but with only one miniUSB port, and somewhat short battery life, so I often plug it in [using that mini USB port], the keyboard & mouse are Bluetooth.

A side note, when we bought my wife's cheaper 2-in-1 [as a faster upgrade to her Kindles] I went for an Intel i3, because I was concerned about Intel's continued support for their Atom chips. The i3 is more powerful than the Atom chips, but it's only dual core rather than quad core like the Atom CPUs in the BeeBox & my tablets. In win10, the devices using Atom CPUs are often just as fast as the i3 because of that. That said, while fine for most stuff, there is a lag opening web browsers, and Windows updates are terrible, taking forever on these low powered CPUs. But if you're not doing something requiring the horsepower, like heavy Photoshop editing [why I have the Ryzen 2700], video editing & encoding, &/or AAA games, there's nothing wrong with saving money.

Posted 6 years ago #
Whiterabbit-uk
Games Guru

Hi Mikiem, thanks for your details comments, as always they are much appreciated. :)

Regarding the price of graphics cards. When I built my last gaming computer 6 years ago I spent over £1300/$1790 on two graphics cards (they were fourth gen NVidia GTX cards and at the time were amazing; however, I vowed never to buy new cards again at that price as they cost more than the rest of the computer put together. I've since purchased second-hand cards as I still think the price of new cards is way over-priced, even new older generation cards are still expensive; for example, the two I purchased last year to replace the one my daughter fried (i.e. the 2 x GTX 980ti's), cost me around £250 each via eBay last year. To buy them new at the time would have been approaching £800 each despite already having been superseded by newer generation models.

I was initially dubious about buying them as I thought they were far too cheap for GTX 980Ti's plus no one else appeared to be bidding on them; however, after reading all the vendors feedback comments from other sales they had made on eBay, I decided to risk buying them and was releaved to find they were perfect.

With respect to SSD's; as they started to come down in price several years ago, I replaced all the main drives with SSD's in all our computers, (apart from a couple of really old dual core computers, which I've kept with Win 98 and XP operating systems, plus loads of older giveaways and game giveaways that may still be useful) . I initially used 125 GB, then moved up to 250GB drives; then, as they became even cheaper a couple of years ago I moved on to 500GB cards), mainly because I was always having to move stuff from My Documents due to the small size of the disks. I still use traditional HDD's for all my games and backup needs. The only things I install to the main drive are the operating system, essential programs, images, and game saves via My documents. I always try to keep a decent amount of space free to keep the boot up times as quick as possible.

I purchased a water cooling system for the computer I built 6 years ago, but never actually installed it because the fixing clamps for the radiator didn't match up with the top fixing holes on my case. I was too lazy to fabricate expansion brackets, (partly because most of my tools including my metalworkers vice had already been boxed in preparation for our upcoming house move); so, I ended up buying an air cooled system instead. The water cooler has since remained boxed with all my other spares; most of which I think I need to take to the recycling center as they include old graphics cards, motherboards, old IDE HDD's of 250GB and less, plus RAM sticks and other computer bric-a-brac that I'm unlikely ever to use again. That said, your comment about a caseless computer has given me some ideas as I have enough spares to build at least two more working computers apart from the cases; however, 'do I really need more computers', lol.

The computer is remarkably quiet considering it has 20 fans inside - 2 x 6 inch fans at the top, 2 x 6 inch fans at the back, 3 x four-inch fans at the front, (that also have removable filters), a single six-inch fan at the bottom of the case and another six-inch fan in the side panel, plus two removable mini fan contraptions, (that I purchased separately from the case), one with three small 1.5 inch fans clipped above the four RAM sticks and a three inch extractor fan that connects to one of the card slots at the back of the motherboard and is placed next to the main graphics card (which pulls exhaust from the card out through the back of the computer). Also, each graphics card has 3 x three-inch fans, plus a four-inch CPU fan with a very large heat sink.

Antec DF-85 Gaming case

Exhaust fan

Clip-on RAM fan

All my previous computer cases had always become really hot to touch due to constant use during the day and evenings, partly because I rarely turned them off and usually spent several hours every day distracting myself. I found playing graphically intensive games like the Elder Scrolls, Armed Assault (ArmA), Need for Speed and Grand Theft Auto, plus brain-teasing puzzle games really helped with my pain management). My occupational therapist called it distraction therapy. I played a lot of games following my accident 13 years ago; so had become used to hot cases. In fact, I lost at least two graphics cards to overheating during that period (GTX second generation cards), partly due to the fans becoming clogged with dust. Because of those losses, I now carry out regular maintenance sessions, removing any dust that accumulates near fans etc. There's nothing like losing expensive hardware to a lack of care to put yourself right when it comes to keeping your computer working efficiently and extending its life.

Anyway, I was pleasantly surprised to find the then-new Antec case (which is one of the large gaming cases - (see image above) always remains cool despite heavy usage and the CPU and graphics card temperatures remain at the lower end of the CPU's average temp ranges for both idle and full load temperatures. Of course, the number of fans and the less cramped interior of the larger gaming case (compared to the much smaller midi cases) helps keep things significantly cooler. Most of the HDD and PSU cables are routed to the back of the computer instead of cluttering up the main space, which further helps airflow.

Posted 6 years ago #
mikiem2
Moderator

Antec makes a good case, with good designs for airflow -- I used an Antec tower for an embarrassingly long number of years [like around 15!]. Then I got my current monster on clearance -- they started painting the inside of new models. I figured it sits on the floor, so how much space it takes up is irrelevant [but man, you really need the casters on this thing], and the bigger it is the more room you have to get your hands in there attaching cables. It only has a few fans, but out of the box three of them are Monsters -- the water cooler with its 2 x 120 fans now takes the place of the 230mm ceiling fan. But it was designed in the period when cases seemed to abandon the idea of a directed airflow, in favor of a really open design, with the only solid piece, rather than some sort of mesh, being the side panel behind the motherboard. When I sent one of my Corsair water coolers in for warranty replacement, I found that it really does not do well with an Intel CPU using air cooling, running 10-15 degrees C hotter vs. using the same CPU, board, & air cooler in the old Antec case, so that directed airflow can make a difference.

found HERE

When I put the new Ryzen in I found a very small bit of corrosion [from coolant seepage] on the radiator when I was cleaning it. Corsair was great about replacing it, though I wish it never leaked to begin with, and while my old cooler was in transit to Corsair, and then while I was waiting for the new one to arrive, I used the stock air cooler that came with the Ryzen, and it was fine. While the Ryzen 2700 runs at about the same temps as the i7 it replaced, with the i7 those were MUCH closer to the danger zone, while the Ryzen has a much higher temperature ceiling. And that is such a huge relief, not having to always keep an eye on the temperature.

When you mentioned routing the cables behind the motherboard support I had to laugh, remembering our son installing my i7 in a new case. Personally I like modular power supplies, where you plug in just the cables you want/need, which really cuts down on the clutter. But from a gaming purest point of view, regular power supplies are better, because you lose a tiny bit of current when you use a plug, vs. having the cables soldered where they attach. So of course that's the type of power supply our son uses, and he had a real devil of a time getting this huge gob of wires tucked in & out of the way. ;)

With a full-window case you might like the fancy light show you can get with my new motherboard -- myself, I guess my very non-flashy German heritage &/or upbringing makes me turn off such things. The RAM sticks I got because they were on sale also light up, as does the Corsair emblem on the cooler, so the whole thing gets quite bright if the board lights are turned. The only not-bright spot is the new sound card, which is a sort of relief for me since the one it replaced, which was incompatible with this board [sigh], was lit up a very bright red. Of course the new sound card and motherboard both can run controllable LED strips, which I also of course ignore. ;)

gigabyte[.]com/Motherboard/X470-AORUS-GAMING-5-WIFI-rev-10#kf

I too worry about dust... I have filters installed or attached at the main points of air intake, and wound up installing filters on the water cooler fans. In fact, in the next couple of days I have to wheel the case out to blow everything off again & wash the filters. Corsair recommends having the radiator fans blowing in, but after a year there was just too much build up on the radiator fins, despite having a filter on the top of the case, and pulling the cooler & dipping the radiator in soapy water is a PITA. Reversing the fans so they blew out helped, but I still had to wash the radiator before the 1 1/2 year mark. So I eventually found some fan filter housings on Amazon, and while they're a cheaper material & construction than I'd like, I managed to get them mounted on the radiator fans. I glued the base to the fans using a glue gun, glued on washers at the corners, & glued small magnets on the filter covers. A bit of a kludge, but it works. But dealing with wheeling out the case, washing the filters, firing up the air compressor to blow off the dust [it's been So Much cheaper than buying canned air], is a drag, and maybe why I still find my Beebox so cute. With the low power Celeron no fans, no dust, almost no footprint.

asrock[.]com/nettop/Intel/Beebox%20Series/?cat=Download&os=Win1064

Posted 6 years ago #
mikiem2
Moderator

2 quick notes for anyone interested & reading this thread...

1st, older CPUs don't support HDMI 2 or newer -- that only matters when/if you use the CPU's built-in graphics [GPU], vs. a graphics card, and if you want to use 4k resolution. You may find PCs & mini PCs that use older model CPUs at a decent sale price, in part because of that, e.g. I saw a barebones miniPC using an older Celeron chip, new for less than $100 this morning.

2nd, because I think I should have mentioned it as part of any hardware upgrade discussion, Microsoft doesn't want you using win7 on new hardware. This causes 2 problems... First, because Microsoft won't include or let you access their database of current model chipset [including CPU & USB] drivers, you won't have access to a USB keyboard or mouse. Google & you'll find several work-a-rounds that may or may not work for you, e.g. installing the drivers in a working copy of win7, then starting it on the new hardware. Some motherboard manufacturers also provide a utility to add the needed drivers to a set of win7 installation files [the ones on a setup DVD or USB stick], so win7 can be installed fresh.

The second related problem is that Microsoft adds new versions of a couple of Windows files, so when a current CPU is detected Windows Update turns off, & you get a message that your hardware isn't supported in win7. One solution is to just download the updates from Microsoft's catalog site, and install them as needed. Another solution can be found here:

github[.]com/zeffy/wufuc

Posted 6 years ago #

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