First post, first of all I love GOTD.
I always read the comments before downloading. How about a "thumbs up" and "thumbs down" icon in the comments with a summary at the top showing how the posters feel about the software?
Suggestion for comments
(47 posts) (17 voices)-
Jaycub
MemberHi Guys there are lots of improvements on the forums although i do find posting a comment takes longer than usual can you rate regular users so the time is shorter for people you think are reliable as i know some delay is for moderation purposes and that's a good idea..is there anway we can remind users that the programs on offer are not age restricted as young children use the software with or without parental permission and by saying thank you to GAOTD they are just using manners, as i see alot of these posts and it shows good traffic flow to the website, and some of the comments by others attacking users who have posted short answers or broken english is not acceptable, all feed back good or bad is food for thought.
This is about user feedback.. How about a rating style sheet for each program usability/ compatability/ functionality /value usefullness...range from 0-10 and a commentry box underneath
i like what you guys have suggested here and i know it's a work in progressAll the best
JayCub
PS hope this is posted in the right section
Posted 17 years ago # -
Mercurius
MemberThe possibility of giving a plus or a minus to each comment (thx a lot to Mr270) does half of the job only 'cause it lacks a sorting functionality.
As it is now, the reader has to scroll down through the comments to the very end like he was driving slalom. But if you are busy and under time pressure you aren't keen on checking whether the evaluations given so far meet your opinion, you just want to read the POSITIVE comments - the double digit range first of all.So, what we need is a filtering/sorting option for the comments enabling us to read them in the descending order of their values.
This, I think, will in general be exceedingly appreciated.Posted 17 years ago # -
Archangel
MemberHello and welcome Mr270. I agree with most of whats been posted here but I think the main objective is getting there software known by "Word of Mouth" so to speak. Ratings would be useless because who's actually credible (no disgrace meant on anyone here) or a proven evaluator of software. Then you have to go into specialties. I didn't download any giveaways for quite some time now because they are of no use to me. Others find them useful. See what I mean though. You'd have to have alot of knowledgeable people in a lot of different fields.
I wished there was alittle improvement on the "find this post useful". All that does is tell a person whether he/she needs to post anymore. It could also mean if they are popular or not. hehehehe So actually thats useless too. I'd say that the main thing would be the ratings (thumb up or down) is the best.
Here is a question for you to ponder on. Do you really want to know what I think about a piece of software? (See what I mean)
Posted 17 years ago # -
I agree with Mercurius that really the only improvement the "is this post helpful?" system needs is some way to filter or sort posts based on their rating.
I can tell just from certain scores that I disagree with some people over what makes a comment useful or not, but for the most part, reviews that are well-thought out tend to get rated higher which, 90% of the time, is what I'd be looking for in the first place.
But something like "this comment was hidden for having a score of -20. Click here to read it." would be great.
Posted 17 years ago # -
headman
MemberSadly, the comments section, because of its wide-open accessability (no registration required, multiple user names, etc.) is a magnet for abuse. Archangel has some very good points where credibilty and popularity are concerned. Several times each day there are people who give the software a scathing "review" based on their total inability to figure out how to get it activated. Also, as a general rule, when a person signs themselves something like "SuperGeekTechnoWhizProgrammerDude", you can safely assume he's sitting on a copy of Windows 95 Starts Here in order to see over the keyboard of Dad's computer.
Without mentioning names, I've seen comments such as "Does this work with Vista?" rated wildly popular because they come from someone who is a well-liked regular of the site. Likewise, a lot of really helpful comments will get "no" votes just because they're in broken English or arrogantly presented.
And how many times have the commenters stated, almost unanimously, that certain software is a resource hog or buggier than Charles Manson, yet the "thumbs up" rating is through the roof? And let's not forget the beating screensavers take just because they're screensavers.
Short of requiring people to register and log in to leave a comment, with the threat of being banned for abuse, I think giving people anything else to click or vote on will just invite more trouble.
Having said that, I find the comments extremely useful, after weeding through them. Since I can check out the site during the day but have to wait until much later to download onto my home computer, I rely heavily on the many intelligent and helpful folks who take the time to actually try the software and give honest appraisals and/or alternatives. The rest I just try to get a chuckle from.
With the possible exception of automatically lopping off the first ten or fifteen posts left during the first few minutes after the giveaway starts ("Woot! First to post!", "Hmmmmmm...might try this", et al.), I'd like to see the section unchanged, left standing as a stirring tribute to free speech and wacky human nature.Posted 17 years ago # -
Short of requiring people to register and log in to leave a comment, with the threat of being banned for abuse,
I have, in the past suggested that registration would be useful not for the reason so people could be banned (and sign up again as someone else) - but it applies some amount of consistency an a level of reliability on the comments.
If someone says the software is good - and over time their comments prove to be correct, reliable, accurate and so on - then that person and their comments start to form a reputation of trust and hopefully consistency. If they are regular reviewers and commenters - after a while you recognise their posts and perhaps even search them out.
It is that consistency that I believe makes a regular contributor's comments valuable. If as is the case with many people - random comments posted under random names each day - without the past history, experience and reputation that users build up over time - it can be difficult to know who to trust.
If you don't know much about the software - and you have no reputation or credibility to fall back onto - whose comments do you believe. Who is making a good comment or a bad comment. Is a good comment one that agrees with your "gut feeling". If a comment doesn't agree with your opinion, is it a bad comment (even though the comment might be 100% correct, and your opinion 100% wrong?)
For many users, I would suspect they follow the crowd - If a comment is '-23' then it must be a bad comment, so the user will turn it into a '-24'. The same applies for a +23 comment.
I have seen someone ask a question in the comments (should be in the forums btw) and score a +15 - several comments later the question is answered correctly and scores a -10 (Maybe it was how the answer was worded?)
But generally I think that registration & password for regular reviewers would actually be a good thing - perhaps even if it wasn't compulsory. Anonymous or random posts/comments could be labelled as such - so people realise the comment cannot always be trusted or taken completely seriously.
Posted 17 years ago # -
Archangel
MemberBuBBy, would you agree that nobody knows everything about everything? I read the comments section daily and it appears to me that no one person could have a use for every single piece of software that is posted. The only exception would be a major corp. that did many things and had a couple thousand employees. But if that were the case, they shouldn't be downloading software from GOTD because its not for commercial use.
Another company would be one that did professional evaluations and had a large staff that could cover a large majority of possible software users. But they wouldn't be doing it for free because of there staff. They would actually be advising major companies.
I'm probably wrong but I have always been under the impression that the comments were for the average user to evaluate. Was it easy to install. Did it live up to what it claims to do. Not ask questions in the comments or express there unapproval of what was being given away. Those should be asked here in the forum and put you and Lee to work. LOL
You said it yourself. Two people can say the same thing. One will get positive points and the other bad ones. I don't think it has much with the wording.
Without mentioning a name, I remember a week or twa ago about one of the popular guru's proclaiming how great a piece of software was until it was discovered (later) that it had malware included. It was even mentioned about the back peddling and editing that he done on his post(s). To me thats a set back on credibility. This re enforces what I stated, No one knows everything about everything. But some sure want others to believe they do.
With the positive/negative rating on comments, I actually don't know how to take it. Don't listen to this one because of the -'s but listen to this one because he is a plus? I know that GOTD wants the feedback from downloaders. Thats part of the gimmick to show the developer/sponsors.
In my opinion the thumbs up/thumbs down is enough. But then again,,,,,what do I know.
BTW Registration would be a good thing as long is it was restricted to one username to IP. I believe that if the IP was logged on each comment on GOTD's frontpage, you'd find alot coming from the same location. LOL
Posted 17 years ago # -
BuBBy, would you agree that nobody knows everything about everything?
I agree in principle, although using such absolutes as "everything" and "nobody" is fraught with problems.
I don't believe I know the extent of everyones knowledge. There are many people on this planet I have not yet met, and considering the current birth rate and the geographical distance to cover - the chances of me assessing everyones knowledge is not likely.
Also to assess if somebody did know everything about everything - I would need to compare it against some type of baseline to determine if their knowledge was complete or lacking. Otherwise "everything" could not be accurately determined.
Being in possession of such a list of everything - would entail that I also would know everything.So if there is even one person alive who knows everything about everything, that would make two of us. :P
(I'm bored)I'm probably wrong but I have always been under the impression that the comments were for the average user to evaluate.
One thing I have found on this site. There aren't any "average" users. Users experience covers the entire spectrum. Different comments seem to come from and be aimed at users of different experience levels and backgrounds.
The point is - like it or not some users will have their favorite comment poster. They will look to see if xyz has posted a comment yet. Not because xyz is an expert in all application types and is always correct. But they like to be able to associate a comment with an identity they have in their head. Some stability in meeting their expectations of what to expect from an individual. Likewise there might be someone whose comments they have learned to dislike because they don't like their tone for example. They see the comment is from abc and think "don't care" and skim to the next comment.
Imagine what the forums would be like if each time you made a post - you could randomly have it appear that it came from somebody else. You could even agree or disagree with yourself - just posting comments to support your own comments. Tomorrow you could be somebody different still.
If I gave you some good advice or helped in some way - you might look out for me in the future. A good example is Bladed Thoths daily reviews. Many people like them and they wait for his review. How effective would this be, if each day he posted under a different name and the reviews went up on a different site under the new name? The identity that has built that trust relationship, is now not there.
Additionally, if registration was not required - and I could be anyone - tomorrow I could post as Bladed Thoth, and say what I like.
Of course, Registration wouldn't be compulsory - just indicate for the comments that were posted by a "Registered user" as opposed to a "Anonymous user". People who wanted to be identified with a persistent identity could be.
Posted 17 years ago # -
BTW Registration would be a good thing as long is it was restricted to one username to IP. I believe that if the IP was logged on each comment on GOTD's frontpage, you'd find alot coming from the same location.
Not even. You're assuming that people would always have the same IP, and they likely don't. Remember that dial-up still exists and plenty of visitors here have it, as witnessed by the amount of mindless complaints about the large games ;>
With the positive/negative rating on comments, I actually don't know how to take it. Don't listen to this one because of the -'s but listen to this one because he is a plus? I know that GOTD wants the feedback from downloaders. Thats part of the gimmick to show the developer/sponsors.
In my opinion the thumbs up/thumbs down is enough.
I mostly ignore the +/-, even though I sometimes set some myself; Too often I've seen good comments have negatives simply because they said something "the mob" didn't agree with. Thankfully, those usually don't get dug down to -50 or lower, so maybe a threshold can be established down there.
(And strangely, I think I may've been banned from commenting. Not sure about this, but eh...)People who wanted to be identified with a persistent identity could be.
And/or prevent others from using their name.
I've noticed that being logged into the forums means you're already identified in the comments section - maybe once registered in the forums, no other commenters can use your name..?... Come to think of it, maybe that's why I can't comment.
Posted 17 years ago # -
kevinyunlai
Member1. reg might result in better comments (and nicer), but there won't be as much
when I first came to this site, I did not bother with signing up.
2. a rating system from 1-10 would be nice
3. the -,+ is terrible
3a, first, some people who actaully tried stuff get -
3b, second, some people who did not download just said, it sucks because blah blah blah without downloading it first
3c, anyways, the main point is the -,+ is WAY off
4. could just be me, but I think that comments are for telling other users, is this program good or bad, and why, not it won't work, I don't like this, don't need this, sucks, I want this or this.......Posted 17 years ago # -
I think that comments are for telling other users, is this program good or bad, and why, not it won't work, I don't like this, don't need this, sucks, I want this or this.......
But do you really care if some other person doesn't need the giveaway software? Do you care if someone else wants the software or doesn't want it? Same goes with "I like it/I don't like it" type comments. Unless I know that the commenting user has the same likes or dislikes as me - the comment means very little.
I'm more interested in reading an explanation clarifying what the program does (if the description is unclear). I'm interested in knowing about any issues during installation - errors - restrictions - unsupported software or hardware, software conflicts.
I'm interested in tips or tricks people have found when using the software. A better alternative to the comments section is the developers official site and a quick tour with google (to check what pops up).
I'm interested also in other similar programs (preferably freeware & open source).
But I am just one user - I'm sure other people are interested in knowing someone else downloaded the giveaway in 15 minutes, or that someone has a problem with yesterdays giveaway still, or that they love the guys at GOTD, or that they are first and might try to download it 'once they get back from the chemist'. :)
If the comment quality bar was raised - there would probably be a lot less to read each day.
Posted 17 years ago # -
kevinyunlai
Member?
BuBBy, I think you misunderstood me...
I think that comments are for telling other users, is this program good or bad, and why,NOT it won't work, I don't like this, don't need this, sucks, I want this or this.......
sorry, should have added a .
my point was, people should give comments that help everyone, comments like I like this does not help anyonePosted 17 years ago # -
No, I knew what you meant. My point was I, personally prefer comments that are fact and less the comments that are opinion - especially if I have no idea of the history of the users past comments or their experience level.
If a user says a program is "good", means very little to me - if the user is not qualified (according to my own standards) to judge the software, or if I believe that possibly the user hasn't actually tested or used the software beyond installing and perhaps playing with it for 2 minutes.
Often I think commenters confuse "The software is good/useful" - with "The software looks/sounds cool" or "The software might be useful if I had a use for it, but I haven't done much apart from install it".
Sometimes I think the same criteria is used in deciding if the software gets a thumbs up or down. I'm sure many users rate the software before downloading or reading the comments. A good example of "judging a book by its cover".
Posted 17 years ago # -
kevinyunlai
MemberI agree
around 1/4 of the comments are posted without downloading first
around 1/4 are comments like suck, good, cool, useless
around 1/4 are can't install, can't download
around 1/8 are this freeware is better
the rest are the "real helpful" comments
if there are 100 comments, how long are you going to have to look before you actaully find a "real" comment?comments means nothing
Facts are what most people what/need to readPosted 17 years ago # -
The problem is, a lot of valid and good comments get down-rated anyway, just because it's taken as a "complain" (waaah~!), or just because they say negative, etc.. You'll notice some people get positive ratings despite having mentioned they're about to download, just because they said something nice.
Posted 17 years ago # -
kevinyunlai
Memberthe rating system is corrupted
it is not based on a good review, but on what people like to hearPosted 17 years ago # -
Some sites for this reason list two ratings. A user rating and an official or site rating.
Also, I wonder if the comments would improve if the download & read existing comments were on separate pages to the submit comment and rate the giveaway, so people were not as tempted to rate or comment before or during installation/download.
Or just stricter moderation to not permit/accept the truly useless comments or questions that belong in the forums.
Posted 17 years ago # -
kevinyunlai
Memberstricter moderation would be better but....
some people would complain about "freedom of speech" and cesnorshipPosted 17 years ago # -
Where does it say that people are entitled to freedom of speech on websites? Sometimes censorship or moderation is required to keep posted content on topic, or non-offensive.
With a set of instructions like, please comment on the software - if you have any questions or comments about GOTD post them in the forums - I'd say freedom of speech is fine within those guidelines.
Having someone post "What do you like about the color green" or anything else that is deemed by the moderators or administrators to not "belong" or be "inappropriate" to meeting their requirements should in my opinion be removed.
I'm sorry, but free speech has absolutely nothing to do with forcing people to read through rubbish when they want information. If some people feel that they have some pseudo constitutional right to post crap on whatever website they like and expect that the site owners cannot do what they please with it, are going to be in for a big shock on most websites.
Besides - how many successful court cases or prosecutions have there ever been where a site owner has infringed on a web surfers "right to free speech"? It would be like me suing "Rolling Stones Magazine" because they won't publish my opinion on some band. Sure it's on topic and it might even be well written and relevant - but it's their magazine - they decide what goes to print. It's got nothing to do with my "right of free speech" or "freedom of expression".
Posted 17 years ago # -
Just delete the complaints... and the complaints about the complaints.
These users probably think that somebody really cares that their post didn't appear on the site. Everybody except me.... my comments are too important to delete. Everyone needs to hear what I have to say. How dare they delete my comment - they have banned me from commenting... what about my rights to free speech?!?
Yeah, right.
[edit] I just remembered the ones that always make me chuckle. "I said something bad - I've uncovered a conspiracy - they are trying to silence me - I think I heard someone outside in the yard... They've come to get me... If you don't hear from me again within 24 hours... it means either my internet has been disconnected or they have succeeded in....."
Posted 17 years ago # -
Archangel
MemberI agree with your statement kevinyunlai. Why even rate the user comments? Isn't the comments made for the developer?
I know that most comments are useless so is this user rating system just to let them know that they aren't wanted? (I'd keep posting because some people are reading it anyway LOL)
I've started reading down the commemts and read one with a negative 11. Then read down a few more comments and saw the same thing posted again but with a plus 6. The only difference was who posted it.
I came to the conclusion that the comments with this user rating system is just a simple way to flame a user comments. No big deal but the comments aren't being used for what they were meant for.
Best thing is to download then come to this forum and check out the info. You'll find more info here and get help if you need it.
Posted 17 years ago # -
So, let's see if I can summarize (I might add a few things of my own here):
- Split the comments from the download, possibly only showing the ability to comment after downloading, while still allowing people to read them first (Tricky!).
- Remove the ratings since they only get abused anyway, and the comments are supposed to be for the developers in the first place.
- Put more emphasis on the forum being for asking for help, maybe making the link larger and using some similar text to, "Having trouble getting the program installed and activated? Try the forums!".
- Delete comments that aren't on topic, aren't after a download, or aren't relevant.
I miss anything?Posted 17 years ago # -
kevinyunlai
MemberKeilaron, overall it seem right
but...
1. some people don't like to register
2. why split the comments? since the comments or for the devolped, why would did need to know about the comments before the downloading?
3. remove the rating, I agree!!!!!
4. someone would have to read all the comments to delete the ones that are uselessPosted 17 years ago # -
1. some people don't like to register
Usually because their comments aren't worth the time.
2. why split the comments? since the comments or for the devolped, why would did need to know about the comments before the downloading?
Some people download just to see if feature X is present, and some of the reviews or other information might tell them whether or not that feature is present or whether or not it works properly.
4. someone would have to read all the comments to delete the ones that are useless
They're already being moderated.
Posted 17 years ago # -
Archangel
MemberNot exactly Keilaron.
This is just my thoughts. Nobody would follow them
1. End user comments should only be made about the software for the developers. Did it install correctly? Did it function as to what was advertised on the download page? How easy was it to use? What would make it better? (and so on)
Not "I think I'll pass on this one", "not another useless program", "You can get blah blah for free" and so on. You've read the comments.
If someone is having difficulty downloading, installing or using software, why not do it in the forum? Have you counted the amount of comments asking about something and how many comments are just to answer? Have you noticed an increase in people coming into the forum asking for help lately?
2. The thumbs up thumbs down should stay as a summary for the developers. Then they can look down thru the comments and see why without all the other useless comments.
What I was refering to was the plus/minus rating on each comment as to its worth. Are we evaluating software or peoples comments? What purpose does it serve other than to tell a person that they are wasting there time commenting because they had a certain amount minus's tagged to there comment.
3. You nailed that one on the head. If they knew to come to the forum, that would elimate a lot of those negative rating comments. Also if they want to complain about what was offered to download, they can do it here. Comments wouldn't have to be deleted because they would have never been there in the first place.
Ok people jump in here and add to or take away. We just posting opinions.
Posted 17 years ago # -
kevinyunlai
Memberlike Archangel said, just posting opinions, if I offended someone, I'm sorry
Keilaron
are the comments really being moderated?
from what I see, no
there have been useless comments and comments will unapportiate words.....Posted 17 years ago # -
headman
MemberI think the administrators of this site just got fed up with the comment section as a whole and now spend most of their time on the business end of this venture. When I first started checking this site out (almost from day one), there were few comments of any kind. As word spread and it became more popular, the "Woot! First comment!" folks started showing up. People complained, and the admins started deleting them. Then one fine day (some of you may remember this), some commenter opened a huge can of worms by thanking God for a certain piece of software.(Not a typo of Gotd, mind you, but God the Supreme Being). Naturally, someone took offense and before you knew it, the comments section was overrun with folks eager to praise Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and a host of others for blessing them with a divine audio converter,etc. Once again, the admins stepped in and began deleting religious references.
Now the game, as they say, was afoot. People began trying to see what they could get away with. Other people would try to shut them up. Sides were chosen and still others chirped in to try and keep peace. Whenever a comment was deleted, others would post saying "Why did you delete this, but not that?" "Why can't I say that when so-and-so can say this?" And this is where people started getting the impression that they had an intrisic right to post whatever the hell they pleased under the guise of "free speech".
While I have nothing to back this up but a gut feeling, I think the admins finally gave up. I think the reason it can take hours for a comment to appear is because every few hours, someone skims through what is probably an enourmous batch and weeds out the obvious garbage, the insults, the profanity, etc., lets the rest go up, and then gets back to the business of running their website. It's a shame because there really are a lot of helpful, intelligent comments mixed in with the nonsense.
It would be great if all the well-meaning people came to the forums and let the kids play in the comments section. But the kids would soon follow because they need the attention. It's like a zombie movie, there's just no end to them.
For someone who yaps away like a smacked puppy, I realize I don't have any sure-fire solutions, but I do know this: While people have a right to say what they want, whether or not it shows up here is entirely up to the people who run this site.Posted 17 years ago #
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